Emergency Descents with ATC COMS - Video

[A Lieberman]

Had never done an emergency descent with banking as a tool. It was
suggested to me to try this with a 90 degree bank.

Very interesting experience as it really works and works quickly! I
tried 2 without banking and 2 with banking of which the video contains
one of each.

Video contains both outside and instrumentation views but the
instrumentation view unfortunately wasn't as good as I hoped. Camera
power saving feature shut the camera off and I lost my zoom setting.

Comments here or on the video most appreciated on helping me improve
the technique as this was my first time doing this

[Blanche]

A 90 deg bank? What aircraft?

[BeechSundowner]

Post by Blanche
A 90 deg bank? What aircraft?

In my Sundowner. The way I understand FAR 91.303, the bank isn't
considered an abrupt change in attitude therefore not acro? I think
the 90 degree bank would be considered a commercial maneuver though?

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:27:13 -0700 (PDT), BeechSundowner

Post by BeechSundowner

Post by Blanche
A 90 deg bank? What aircraft?

In my Sundowner. The way I understand FAR 91.303, the bank isn't
considered an abrupt change in attitude therefore not acro? I think
the 90 degree bank would be considered a commercial maneuver though?

Sho nuff is. Any thing over 60 degrees is considered aerobatic.

[Mark Hansen]

Post by Roger (K8RI)
On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:27:13 -0700 (PDT), BeechSundowner

Post by BeechSundowner

Post by Blanche
A 90 deg bank? What aircraft?

In my Sundowner. The way I understand FAR 91.303, the bank isn't
considered an abrupt change in attitude therefore not acro? I think
the 90 degree bank would be considered a commercial maneuver though?

Sho nuff is. Any thing over 60 degrees is considered aerobatic.

Right. I was taught to use a 45 degree bank and full flaps. At about
90 KIAS, the C172 comes down like a brick.

But a 90 degree bank? Whew! I assumed it was a typo.

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:51:36 -0700 (PDT), A Lieberman

Post by A Lieberman
http://youtu.be/dxkiT8gWIQo
Had never done an emergency descent with banking as a tool. It was
suggested to me to try this with a 90 degree bank.
Very interesting experience as it really works and works quickly! I
tried 2 without banking and 2 with banking of which the video contains
one of each.

Try slipping instead. It will give you one whale of a rate of descent
without pulling much in the way of Gs, and the airspeed will stay low.
Emergency descents at max are best done with an instructor until safe.

In the Deb an emergency descent is gear down and full flaps at idle
plus a maximum effort slip which will give about 2200 to 2300 fpm rate
of descent. That's the only way I can get down that fast without
exceeding at least one of the aircraft's limitations.

Post by A Lieberman
Video contains both outside and instrumentation views but the
instrumentation view unfortunately wasn't as good as I hoped. Camera
power saving feature shut the camera off and I lost my zoom setting.
Comments here or on the video most appreciated on helping me improve
the technique as this was my first time doing this

What was your rate of descent?
Be careful as to the structural limitations of the specific aircraft.

BTW in a G-III (Glasair III) I had the nose pointed at the ground
coming down the back side of a split-S at 335 MPH pulling 3.5 Gs. It's
Vne isn't near as limiting to rate of descent as is the one for the
Deb.<:-))

Let's see, Rate of descent at 335 MPH is...

[BeechSundowner]

Post by Roger (K8RI)
What was your rate of descent?
Be careful as to the structural limitations of the specific aircraft.

Hey Roger,

Rate of descent was extreme. VSI was pegged at 2000 fpm. On
recovery, Gmeter recorded +2 G's as I let the plane fly out on it's
own. Upper left corner of the video, you can see the ASI and VNE is
just above the upper left corner. 152 is VNE and I initiated recovery
just before VNE.

Post by Roger (K8RI)
BTW in a G-III (Glasair III) I had the nose pointed at the ground
coming down the back side of a split-S at 335 MPH pulling 3.5 Gs. It's
Vne isn't near as limiting to rate of descent as is the one for the
Deb.<:-))

Interesting. I wouldn't think the rate of descent is as important as
the G forces on recovery? I will have to check my POH for that value
if it exists, but if the VSI only goes to 2000 how would I know I
exceeded the maximum value permissable. I can lose greater then 2000
like you said on a slip and the airframe the way I see it would have
more stress on it then what I did due to more exposure? My simple
thoughts anyway.

Again, the idea of this exercise was to add another took in my tool
kit for traffic avoidance. If it was a fire onboard, I would slip as
you say since I'd rather not fan the flames with the additional
airspeed.

[Mark Hansen]

Post by BeechSundowner

Post by Roger (K8RI)
What was your rate of descent?
Be careful as to the structural limitations of the specific aircraft.

Hey Roger,
Rate of descent was extreme. VSI was pegged at 2000 fpm. On
recovery, Gmeter recorded +2 G's as I let the plane fly out on it's
own. Upper left corner of the video, you can see the ASI and VNE is
just above the upper left corner. 152 is VNE and I initiated recovery
just before VNE.

Post by Roger (K8RI)
BTW in a G-III (Glasair III) I had the nose pointed at the ground
coming down the back side of a split-S at 335 MPH pulling 3.5 Gs. It's
Vne isn't near as limiting to rate of descent as is the one for the
Deb.<:-))

Interesting. I wouldn't think the rate of descent is as important as
the G forces on recovery? I will have to check my POH for that value
if it exists, but if the VSI only goes to 2000 how would I know I
exceeded the maximum value permissable. I can lose greater then 2000
like you said on a slip and the airframe the way I see it would have
more stress on it then what I did due to more exposure? My simple
thoughts anyway.

I think you missed something. There's no limit on the rate of descent.
There is on Airspeed (as well as other things). Re-read what he said...

It seems like you think you need a high airspeed indication to get a
high rate of descent. Like I said in another post, I can get a very high
rate of descent with just 90KIAS. Also, no heavy Gs on return to level
flight. A good CFI can show you how.

Post by BeechSundowner
Again, the idea of this exercise was to add another took in my tool
kit for traffic avoidance. If it was a fire onboard, I would slip as
you say since I'd rather not fan the flames with the additional
airspeed.

[Flaps_50!]

Post by Mark Hansen

Post by BeechSundowner

Post by Roger (K8RI)
What was your rate of descent?
Be careful as to the structural limitations of the specific aircraft.

Hey Roger,
Rate of descent was extreme.  VSI was pegged at 2000 fpm.  On
recovery, Gmeter recorded +2 G's as I let the plane fly out on it's
own.  Upper left corner of the video, you can see the ASI and VNE is
just above the upper left corner.  152 is VNE and I initiated recovery
just before VNE.

Post by Roger (K8RI)
BTW in a G-III (Glasair III) I had the nose pointed at the ground
coming down the back side of a split-S at 335 MPH pulling 3.5 Gs. It's
Vne isn't near as limiting to rate of descent as is the one for the
Deb.<:-))

Interesting.  I wouldn't think the rate of descent is as important as
the G forces on recovery?  I will have to check my POH for that value
if it exists, but if the VSI only goes to 2000 how would I know I
exceeded the maximum value permissable.  I can lose greater then 2000
like you said on a slip and the airframe the way I see it would have
more stress on it then what I did due to more exposure?  My simple
thoughts anyway.

I think you missed something. There's no limit on the rate of descent.
There is on Airspeed (as well as other things). Re-read what he said...
It seems like you think you need a high airspeed indication to get a
high rate of descent. Like I said in another post, I can get a very high
rate of descent with just 90KIAS. Also, no heavy Gs on return to level
flight. A good CFI can show you how.

I guess he could put it into a spin, that'll really lose altitude
fast :-0 and the plane is certified for spins apparently... LOL

Cheers

[BeechSundowner]

Post by Flaps_50!
I guess he could put it into a spin, that'll really lose altitude
fast :-0 and the plane is certified for spins apparently... LOL

But I did not put the plane into a spin, did I? What part of that did
you miss in the video?

[Flaps_50!]

Post by Flaps_50!
I guess he could put it into a spin, that'll really lose altitude
fast :-0 and the plane is certified for spins apparently... LOL

But I did not put the plane into a spin, did I?  What part of that did
you miss in the video?

Sheesh. Loosen your panties, it was a hypothetical scenario. The
danger of your maneuver comes from the very fast rise in airspeed that
continues until near wings level. It is not suitable for non-aerobatic
trained pilots IMHO. I'm sure you know about the dangers of a spiral
dive which that maneuver enters.

Cheers