Discussion:
Hepl With Medical
(too old to reply)
Mark
2010-03-23 17:17:02 UTC
Permalink
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.

Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
A Lieberman
2010-03-23 18:12:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
Absolutely. Apply at www.msfsversion10.com or at www.msfsversion09.com
Mx probably has a couple extra applications for you should you need
one, or three or ten LOL
Mark
2010-03-23 18:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by A Lieberman
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
Absolutely. Apply at www.msfsversion10.com or at www.msfsversion09.com
Mx probably has a couple extra applications for you should you need
one, or three or ten LOL
Very funny.

I hope none of your family ever has to suffer like I do.
Mxsmanic
2010-03-23 22:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
No. Both the condition itself and the medications used to treat it are
disqualifying. Very rare exceptions may be made if a candidate can demonstrate
that the condition does not interfere with the flying task or if the condition
is historical and no longer active (and no medication is being taken for it).
A Lieberman
2010-03-24 12:39:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
No. Both the condition itself and the medications used to treat it are
disqualifying. Very rare exceptions may be made if a candidate can demonstrate
that the condition does not interfere with the flying task or if the condition
is historical and no longer active (and no medication is being taken for it).
So you finally agree that MSFX is not flying??????
A Lieberman
2010-03-24 12:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
the condition does not interfere with the flying task
So you finally agree that MSFX is not flying??????
Mark
2010-03-24 14:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
No. Both the condition itself and the medications used to treat it are
disqualifying. Very rare exceptions may be made if a candidate can demonstrate
that the condition does not interfere with the flying task or if the condition
is historical and no longer active (and no medication is being taken for it).
Thanks, Mxsmanic.

I appreciate the straightforward, honest and accurate answer.

I won't lie on my PPL application, it's just not me.

Mark The Grounded
Tiger Would
2010-03-24 14:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
No. Both the condition itself and the medications used to treat it are
disqualifying. Very rare exceptions may be made if a candidate can demonstrate
that the condition does not interfere with the flying task or if the condition
is historical and no longer active (and no medication is being taken for it).
Thanks, Mxsmanic.
I appreciate the straightforward, honest and accurate answer.
I won't lie on my PPL application, it's just not me.
Mark The Grounded
*WHAT???*

Mark(ie) lied about being a pilot?

*BWWWAAHAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*
--
tiger
w
2010-03-24 15:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger Would
Post by Mark
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
No. Both the condition itself and the medications used to treat it are
disqualifying. Very rare exceptions may be made if a candidate can demonstrate
that the condition does not interfere with the flying task or if the condition
is historical and no longer active (and no medication is being taken for it).
Thanks, Mxsmanic.
I appreciate the straightforward, honest and accurate answer.
I won't lie on my PPL application, it's just not me.
Mark The Grounded
*WHAT???*
Mark(ie) lied about being a pilot?
*BWWWAAHAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*
Mark(ie)? Lie?

It's his fukken middle name.
--
"Napalm sticks to kids!".
http://tr.im/1f7m
Jared
2010-03-24 17:28:21 UTC
Permalink
On Mar 24, 10:23 am, Not-Mark wrote:
[...]
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
There's a surgeon who's got Tourette's who flies, so why not someone
who's bi-polar?
Tiger Would
2010-03-24 18:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jared
[...]
Post by Mark
I have been diagnosed as manic depressive (bi-polar) and take Prozac
and other mind soothing drugs.
Will I be able to get a private pilot's license?
There's a surgeon who's got Tourette's who flies, so why not someone
who's bi-polar?
Because Tourette's is controllable and manic depressive = eternally
fukked in the Mark(ie) head.
--
tiger
Mxsmanic
2010-03-24 20:24:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tiger Would
Because Tourette's is controllable and manic depressive = eternally
fukked in the Mark(ie) head.
Neither statement is entirely correct.
Otto Bahn
2010-03-24 20:37:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Tiger Would
Because Tourette's is controllable and manic depressive = eternally
fukked in the Mark(ie) head.
Neither statement is entirely correct.
Few statements are. <-- That one is an exception.

Twinkle, twinkle, little star. <-- That one has a little star.

Milk cows stay close to home. <-- That one doesn't wander far.

--oTTo--
Tiger Would
2010-03-24 20:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Tiger Would
Because Tourette's is controllable and manic depressive = eternally
fukked in the Mark(ie) head.
Neither statement is entirely correct.
You don't know Mark(ie)!

*LOL*
--
tiger
Mark
2010-03-24 20:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Tiger Would
Because Tourette's is controllable and manic depressive = eternally
fukked in the Mark(ie) head.
Neither statement is entirely correct.
Forget Jeffrey Bloss, Mx.

Why is it that I cannot get my PPL and a person with Tourrete's can?
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mxsmanic
2010-03-24 21:17:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Why is it that I cannot get my PPL and a person with Tourrete's can?
Someone with Tourette's syndrome may be disqualified, also. Tourette's
requires that the application be deferred to FAA headquarters, with plentyo f
appropriate documentation, so a medical certification can hardly be taken for
granted with this condition.
Mark
2010-03-24 23:41:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Why is it that I cannot get my PPL and a person with Tourrete's can?
Someone with Tourette's syndrome may be disqualified, also. Tourette's
requires that the application be deferred to FAA headquarters, with plentyo f
appropriate documentation, so a medical certification can hardly be taken for
granted with this condition.
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mark
2010-03-25 02:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Why is it that I cannot get my PPL and a person with Tourrete's can?
Someone with Tourette's syndrome may be disqualified, also. Tourette's
requires that the application be deferred to FAA headquarters, with plentyo f
appropriate documentation, so a medical certification can hardly be taken for
granted with this condition.
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My websitehttp://www.hosanna1.com/www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
The only one here not flying is you Jeffrey Bloss,
playstation pilot and hacker of real pilot Mark's google
identity.

I understand. You envy me, and it tortures you.

---
Mark
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-26 20:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
The only one here not flying is you
Wait a minute. You claim to be bi-polar, on Prozac, etc (at least that
is what you have posted all over the depression Usenet groups)and the
FAA cleared you for a PP cert?

I don't think so unless you lied and if you did, and get caught, they
will haul your hiney off to jail.
Mark
2010-03-26 21:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mark
The only one here not flying is you
Wait a minute. You claim to be bi-polar, on Prozac, etc (at least that
is what you have posted all over the depression Usenet groups)and the
FAA cleared you for a PP cert?
I don't think so unless you lied and if you did, and get caught, they
will haul your hiney off to jail.
Jealous enough?
--
Mark The Pilot
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-26 21:02:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mark
The only one here not flying is you
Wait a minute. You claim to be bi-polar, on Prozac, etc (at least that
is what you have posted all over the depression Usenet groups)and the
FAA cleared you for a PP cert?
I don't think so unless you lied and if you did, and get caught, they
will haul your hiney off to jail.
Jealous enough?
Of the shower scenes when you bend over and take it in the rear? No,
not really.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Jim Logajan
2010-03-26 23:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mark
The only one here not flying is you
Wait a minute. You claim to be bi-polar, on Prozac, etc (at least that
is what you have posted all over the depression Usenet groups)and the
FAA cleared you for a PP cert?
I don't think so unless you lied and if you did, and get caught, they
will haul your hiney off to jail.
Ahem.

Please consider learning about and then using the mechanism in your
newsgroup reader that allows you to see more of the headers in posts. Then
learn to read them. Once you have done that, you would then realize that
the posts bearing the "From" address of "Mark <***@yahoo.com>" are
actually coming from at least three different free Usenet providers. They
are x-privat.org, eternal-september.org, and google.com. Only one of those,
google.com, provides any sort of means for users to perform rudimentary and
independent authentication of origin (i.e. it provides the originating IP
address of posts.)

By disregarding any posts allegedly from Mark that don't come from Google
and contain the header
NNTP-Posting-Host: 74.179.138.96
you would find an otherwise normal poster responding to attacks by someone
with an irrational obsession.
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-27 13:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Ahem.
Mxsmanic

Ahem.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mxsmanic
2010-03-25 05:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example, and a person in the depressive phase may be tempted to commit suicide
with his airplane. Although there is individual variation, severe cases of
bipolar are incompatible with operating vehicles or other machines that may
endanger the safety of the operator or others.
Father Haskell
2010-03-25 06:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example, and a person in the depressive phase may be tempted to commit suicide
with his airplane. Although there is individual variation, severe cases of
bipolar are incompatible with operating vehicles or other machines that may
endanger the safety of the operator or others.
Speaking of psychiatric conditions which interfere with good
judgement, what about scientology?
Mxsmanic
2010-03-25 13:09:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Father Haskell
Speaking of psychiatric conditions which interfere with good
judgement, what about scientology?
Religious belief is not considered during an evaluation for medical
certification for flying.
A Lieberman
2010-03-25 12:19:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example,
So why don't they ban people with bi-polar from playing MSFS. Is it
because you are finally agreeing you don't fly but only play a game on
your desktop computer?

After all you have said in the past you don't want to take unsafe
risks.
Mark
2010-03-25 15:41:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by A Lieberman
Post by Mxsmanic
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example,
So why don't they ban people with bi-polar from playing MSFS. Is it
because you are finally agreeing you don't fly but only play a game on
your desktop computer?
After all you have said in the past you don't want to take unsafe
risks.
Go away Jewball and quit chasing me all over Usenet.

Let me tell you something you little bastard, and I'm only
gonna tell you once. You've been libeling my posts for
months and libeling me and there are people who can find
out who you are in real life.

When I get my hands on you I will make you eat every
Goddamn word you've posted. You got that? You will be
located and I will put you in the motherfucking hospital.
I will ruin you for life and it's gonna hurt real fucking bad.

You've fucked yourself son.
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
VD
2010-03-25 15:55:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by A Lieberman
Post by Mxsmanic
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example,
So why don't they ban people with bi-polar from playing MSFS. Is it
because you are finally agreeing you don't fly but only play a game on
your desktop computer?
After all you have said in the past you don't want to take unsafe
risks.
Go away Jewball and quit chasing me all over Usenet.
Let me tell you something you little bastard, and I'm only
gonna tell you once. You've been libeling my posts for
months and libeling me and there are people who can find
out who you are in real life.
When I get my hands on you I will make you eat every
Goddamn word you've posted. You got that? You will be
located and I will put you in the motherfucking hospital.
I will ruin you for life and it's gonna hurt real fucking bad.
You've fucked yourself son.
And he wonders why the FAA won't give him a PPL?

*ROARING LAFFTER*
Mark
2010-03-25 15:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example, and a person in the depressive phase may be tempted to commit suicide
with his airplane. Although there is individual variation, severe cases of
bipolar are incompatible with operating vehicles or other machines that may
endanger the safety of the operator or others.
I can't deny any of that, Mx, my personal fight with BPD has flared
out of control recently. Began in Onc-Nov when I first started posting
here.

I'm in better shape today...but that's today and tomorrow...

Well...
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mark
2010-03-25 17:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example, and a person in the depressive phase may be tempted to commit suicide
with his airplane. Although there is individual variation, severe cases of
bipolar are incompatible with operating vehicles or other machines that may
endanger the safety of the operator or others.
Update:

I have logged into Pilots Of America as Marcus Aurelius; actually I
have been posting there for several months but decided to take the
leaping step forward and go public with my bi-polar disorder (BPD).
I'm in the Medical Topics Group.

Btw, check out my avatar!!

Being a mental health counselor, this is very hard for me to do. It's
embarrassing.

Anyone who would like to check my posting history on manic disorders
can follow this line to the Google Groups alt.support.depression.manic
which is for "extremely serious depression disorders".

Or complete whackos :)

http://tinyurl.com/ygg43ns

Anywho, hopefully I can get confirmation from POA forum...where
Jeffrey Bloss can't hack me.
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Christopher Parrilli
2010-03-25 17:35:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
I have logged into Pilots Of America as Marcus Aurelius; actually I
have been posting there for several months but decided to take the
leaping step forward and go public with my bi-polar disorder (BPD).
I'm in the Medical Topics Group.
Btw, check out my avatar!!
Now *that* is sum funky funny shit!! What are you a chicken with a
comb disease or a cat with a chicken stuffed on his head?
--
http://www.elmontesagrado.com/
Mark
2010-03-25 17:44:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher Parrilli
Post by Mark
I have logged into Pilots Of America as Marcus Aurelius; actually I
have been posting there for several months but decided to take the
leaping step forward and go public with my bi-polar disorder (BPD).
I'm in the Medical Topics Group.
Btw, check out my avatar!!
Now *that* is sum funky funny shit!! What are you a chicken with a
comb disease or a cat with a chicken stuffed on his head?
Fuck off.
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Jared
2010-03-26 05:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example, and a person in the depressive phase may be tempted to commit suicide
with his airplane. Although there is individual variation, severe cases of
bipolar are incompatible with operating vehicles or other machines that may
endanger the safety of the operator or others.
That sounds reasonable, but people with various kinds of mental
illness are not automatically disqualified from driving cars, even if
they've been involuntarily hospitalized.
Tiger Would
2010-03-26 07:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jared
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example, and a person in the depressive phase may be tempted to commit suicide
with his airplane. Although there is individual variation, severe cases of
bipolar are incompatible with operating vehicles or other machines that may
endanger the safety of the operator or others.
That sounds reasonable, but people with various kinds of mental
illness are not automatically disqualified from driving cars, even if
they've been involuntarily hospitalized.
If you can't see the difference between driving a car and piloting an
airplane then you need to return to high school...and finally get that
dick sucked of yours.
--
http://tr.im/1f9p
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 14:13:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jared
That sounds reasonable, but people with various kinds of mental
illness are not automatically disqualified from driving cars, even if
they've been involuntarily hospitalized.
The medical standards for driving a car are extremely lenient, since so many
people need to drive cars, and since experience has shown that incapacitation
due to medical conditions is rare, even with low medical standards (something
that aviation has not yet acknowledged).

The most common cause of incapacitation in automobile drivers is alcohol
intoxication, and yet, oddly enough, being a user of alcohol does not
disqualify one from driving a car (in fact, it doesn't even disqualify a
person from being a pilot).

It's odd how double standards develop. If you had one seizure when you were
five years old, you may not be able to get a pilot's license, but if you drink
alcohol until you lose consciousness three times a week, that's okay.
Zapanaz
2010-03-26 18:28:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Jared
That sounds reasonable, but people with various kinds of mental
illness are not automatically disqualified from driving cars, even if
they've been involuntarily hospitalized.
The medical standards for driving a car are extremely lenient, since so many
people need to drive cars, and since experience has shown that incapacitation
due to medical conditions is rare, even with low medical standards (something
that aviation has not yet acknowledged).
The most common cause of incapacitation in automobile drivers is alcohol
intoxication, and yet, oddly enough, being a user of alcohol does not
disqualify one from driving a car (in fact, it doesn't even disqualify a
person from being a pilot).
It's odd how double standards develop. If you had one seizure when you were
five years old, you may not be able to get a pilot's license, but if you drink
alcohol until you lose consciousness three times a week, that's okay.
Only you can, at least theoretically, schedule when you are going to
drink, but not when you are going to have a seizure. And you are in
fact disqualified from driving when you are drunk.

Making what you are saying fairly asinine.
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
"You laugh at ME because I'm different. I laugh at YOU because YOU'RE ALL
THE SAME."

:: Currently listening to Greensleeves, 1968, by Jeff Beck, from "Truth"
Mark
2010-03-26 18:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zapanaz
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Jared
That sounds reasonable, but people with various kinds of mental
illness are not automatically disqualified from driving cars, even if
they've been involuntarily hospitalized.
The medical standards for driving a car are extremely lenient, since so many
people need to drive cars, and since experience has shown that incapacitation
due to medical conditions is rare, even with low medical standards (something
that aviation has not yet acknowledged).
The most common cause of incapacitation in automobile drivers is alcohol
intoxication, and yet, oddly enough, being a user of alcohol does not
disqualify one from driving a car (in fact, it doesn't even disqualify a
person from being a pilot).
It's odd how double standards develop. If you had one seizure when you were
five years old, you may not be able to get a pilot's license, but if you drink
alcohol until you lose consciousness three times a week, that's okay.
Only you can, at least theoretically, schedule when you are going to
drink, but not when you are going to have a seizure. And you are in
fact disqualified from driving when you are drunk.
Making what you are saying fairly asinine.
I never said I had seizures and I have my alcoholism under control. I
haven't has a manic fit in a couple of months...except when I get
violently angry on Usenet :)
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 19:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zapanaz
Only you can, at least theoretically, schedule when you are going to
drink, but not when you are going to have a seizure. And you are in
fact disqualified from driving when you are drunk.
However, substance abuse in itself is a bad sign, and people who do drugs tend
to be careless about when they use them, and careless about yielding to
authority in general.

The best pilots don't drink at all.
j***@specsol.spam.sux.com
2010-03-26 19:21:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
The best pilots don't drink at all.
Utter babbling, delusional, nonsense.
--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Zapanaz
2010-03-26 19:36:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Zapanaz
Only you can, at least theoretically, schedule when you are going to
drink, but not when you are going to have a seizure. And you are in
fact disqualified from driving when you are drunk.
However, substance abuse in itself is a bad sign, and people who do drugs
"do drugs"? Like Aspirin?
Post by Mxsmanic
tend
to be careless about when they use them, and careless about yielding to
authority in general.
Oh do you have some kind of substantiation for that? That sounds
pretty pulled-out-of-your-ass to me.
Post by Mxsmanic
The best pilots don't drink at all.
That sounds pretty pulled-out-of-your-ass too.
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
I can levitate birds. No one cares.
- Steven Wright

:: Currently listening to Ears Ring, 2005, by Rainer Maria, from "Long Knives Drawn"
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 20:53:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zapanaz
"do drugs"? Like Aspirin?
Like mood-altering drugs, such as ethanol, nicotine, etc.
Zapanaz
2010-03-26 20:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Zapanaz
"do drugs"? Like Aspirin?
Like mood-altering drugs, such as ethanol, nicotine, etc.
So, nicotine addicts shouldn't drive cars?
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
A professional politician
is a professionally dishonorable man.
In order to get anywhere near high office,
he has to make so many compromises
and submit to so many humiliations
that he becomes indistinguishable
from a streetwalker.
- H. L. Mencken

:: Currently listening to Ben Kini (Son of Kini), 2005, by Altaf Gnawa Group, from "Gnawa Music from Morocco"
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 21:07:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zapanaz
So, nicotine addicts shouldn't drive cars?
Good question. Nicotine is more of a straight CNS stimulant than
mood-altering, but addicts who are itching for a fix can behave in dangerous
ways.
Alpha Propellerhead
2010-03-31 21:25:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
The best pilots don't drink at all.
Tell it to Bob Hoover, Pappy Boyington or Pancho Barnes. You should
stop talking to student pilots like you're some sort of authority on
FAA medical standards or flying since you have no experience in
either.

"Why Yeager, you old bastard. Don't just stand there like some
lonesome goddamn mouseshit sheepherder. Get your ass over here and
have a drink" -The Right Stuff

-c
CP/CFI-ASEL-IA
Mxsmanic
2010-04-01 01:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
Tell it to Bob Hoover, Pappy Boyington or Pancho Barnes.
I don't know the drinking histories of these people. But a drinking pilot can
be better if he doesn't drink. Indeed, substance abuse in general is a
self-destructive practice, and correlates with personality traits that are
less than ideal for most pilots (some types of piloting might benefit, but not
commercial transport or ordinary private GA).
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
You should stop talking to student pilots like you're some sort
of authority on FAA medical standards or flying since you have
no experience in either.
The FAA doesn't have a medical standard on chronic use of alcohol. The effects
of impairment of any kind on flying are well known. And all smart students
look things up; if they depend on USENET for anything, they have a problem.
j***@specsol.spam.sux.com
2010-04-01 02:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
I don't know the drinking histories of these people. But a drinking pilot can
be better if he doesn't drink.
Delusional nonsense.
--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
a***@gmail.com
2010-04-01 03:01:03 UTC
Permalink
But a drinking pilot can be better if he doesn't drink.
Let me guess, the sounds of crickets coming as you never answer my
questions when I ask you for tangible proof OUTSIDE your little
world..

WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE ON THIS?????????????

SOMETHING WE ALL CAN READ ON THE WEB FOR OURSELVES.
Alpha Propellerhead
2010-04-02 23:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
Tell it to Bob Hoover, Pappy Boyington or Pancho Barnes.
I don't know the drinking histories of these people.
That is abundantly clear or you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous
statement. ("The best pilots don't drink at all.")

Have you ever been diagnosed with aspberger syndrome? I'm curious,
because I've been hearing about a couple of local airplane fanatics
who have been diagnosed, and although they'll tell you what kind of
engine is in an airplane that's approaching (correctly more often than
I could), or how an airplane should be flown, they practically go
fetal in the cockpit with any instructor that tries to take them
around the pattern. Turns out, they're infatuated with aviation but
absolutely terrified of flying. On the ground, they're experts and
getting their license is just a matter of proving to the FAA that they
already know how to fly.

The examiners, FAA and instructors will never be able to make pilots
out of them because they're afraid of basic traffic-pattern aviation,
and regardless of your experience or authority, you can never, ever
begin to convince them that they are wrong.

Absolutely nothing against people with that spectrum of behavior,
however you want to diagnose it, but I think people will understand
why I'm bringing this up here.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
You should stop talking to student pilots like you're some sort of authority on FAA medical standards or flying since you have
no experience in either.
The FAA doesn't have a medical standard on chronic use of alcohol.
Apparently, I was unclear the first time.
Post by Mxsmanic
And all smart students look things up; if they depend on USENET for anything, they have a problem.
Your only presence in the world of aviation is USENET, and on r.a.s.,
that is indeed a problem.

-c
CFI-ASEL-IA
Mxsmanic
2010-04-03 09:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
That is abundantly clear or you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous
statement. ("The best pilots don't drink at all.")
There are many excellent pilots in the world, and of those, many do not drink
because they know that drinking and flying don't mix. If you drink, there's
always the possibility that you'll fly impaired, even if it's just by
accident. By avoiding drugs entirely, you also eliminate that possibility.

The same applies to other people who operate potentially dangerous machinery.
The easiest way to avoid being affected by drugs is to not take them in the
first place.
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
Have you ever been diagnosed with aspberger syndrome?
No.
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
I'm curious, because I've been hearing about a couple of local
airplane fanatics who have been diagnosed ...
Diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome is still a matter of considerable debate.
It's a case of a personality type being labeled as a mental illness. It isn't
the first time this has happened.

I've met people diagnosed with this condition who show no signs of illness
that I can see. Yes, they are introverts, and often they are exceptionally
intelligent--the diagnostic criteria for AS, such as they are, also happen to
match the profile of many gifted adults and especially gifted children.
However, there's nothing wrong with them.

It's a strange world. Homosexuality is a sexual deviation, but constant
lobbying by special-interest groups over a period of decades has succeeded in
labeling it a lifestyle rather than a deviation. At the same time, people who
do not have mental illnesses are being "diagnosed" with things like ADD or AS,
using the same species of extraordinarily vague diagnostic criteria that were
formerly used to "prove" that homosexuality was a mental illness (instead of
just a sexual deviation). Today, it's fashionable to have some sort of
diagnosed mental illness. That's why prescriptions for psychiatric drugs for
children have increased by 4000% in recent years (although I suspect neither
the children nor the parents have considered the effect this will have on
their ability to become pilots later in life, should they choose to do so).

The fact is, psychology and psychiatry are extremely vague sciences, so much
so that calling them sciences is perhaps being unjustifiably charitable.

And with respect to aviation, the problem is that inappropriate diagnosis of
imaginary mental illnesses may interfere with a person's goal of becoming a
pilot, even if there be nothing wrong with him.

There is one bright light, though: The FAA will soon allow people diagnosed
with depression to fly, as long as they can show that their depression has
been successfully treated or has subsided. The FAA will also allow the use of
several antidepressant medications by airmen henceforth. These will be special
issuances, but at least it's a step forward.

The FAA's reasoning is that it's less dangerous to have a pilot medicated for
depression flying than it is to have a depressed pilot flying without meds who
has lied on his medical. I suppose that is true, as long as the depression is
well and truly controlled by medication. Suicidal pilots are obviously a bad
thing.
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
Apparently, I was unclear the first time.
I agree.
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
Your only presence in the world of aviation is USENET, and on r.a.s.,
that is indeed a problem.
Actually, this is not my only aviation presence. You may have already read
articles I've written, but since they are not written under this pseudonym or
under my real name, you might not have recognized them.
Mike Ash
2010-04-03 13:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
That is abundantly clear or you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous
statement. ("The best pilots don't drink at all.")
There are many excellent pilots in the world, and of those, many do not drink
because they know that drinking and flying don't mix. If you drink, there's
always the possibility that you'll fly impaired, even if it's just by
accident. By avoiding drugs entirely, you also eliminate that possibility.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, not only do you have no
experience with aviation, but you also have no experience with alcohol.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Mxsmanic
2010-04-03 14:12:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, not only do you have no
experience with aviation, but you also have no experience with alcohol.
You're half right: I do have experience with aviation, but I don't do drugs.
Jim Logajan
2010-04-03 18:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mike Ash
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, not only do you have
no experience with aviation, but you also have no experience with
alcohol.
You're half right: I do have experience with aviation, but I don't do drugs.
Do you drink coffee or tea?
Ever taken any aspirin or other painkillers?
Ever consumed wine, beer, or cough medicine[1]?

[1] http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/medicine/medicine.htm
Ari
2010-04-03 19:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Logajan
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mike Ash
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that, not only do you have
no experience with aviation, but you also have no experience with
alcohol.
You're half right: I do have experience with aviation, but I don't do drugs.
Do you drink coffee or tea?
Ever taken any aspirin or other painkillers?
Ever consumed wine, beer, or cough medicine[1]?
[1] http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/medicine/medicine.htm
Or smoke a ciggie or cigar?
Or inhale CO
Or eat food with preservatives?
Or live?
--
Ari's Fun Times!
http://tr.im/hrFG
Motto: Run, rabbit, Run!
Mxsmanic
2010-04-03 19:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Logajan
Do you drink coffee or tea?
No.
Post by Jim Logajan
Ever taken any aspirin or other painkillers?
Only for analgesia (I am prone to headaches). I don't take mood-altering
drugs.
Post by Jim Logajan
Ever consumed wine, beer, or cough medicine[1]?
No beer or wine. No alcohol at all.

Only cough medicine (see above), and typically only briefly when recovering
from an infection that produces a cough. DM and codeine at the dosage levels
used for cough medicine have no effect on mood, although I prefer to avoid the
latter in particular because it does have other side effects that are present
even in small doses.

j***@specsol.spam.sux.com
2010-04-03 17:34:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
That is abundantly clear or you wouldn't have made such a ridiculous
statement. ("The best pilots don't drink at all.")
There are many excellent pilots in the world, and of those, many do not drink
because they know that drinking and flying don't mix. If you drink, there's
always the possibility that you'll fly impaired, even if it's just by
accident. By avoiding drugs entirely, you also eliminate that possibility.
Babbling, delusional nonsense.
--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.
Zapanaz
2010-04-03 18:48:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
There are many excellent pilots in the world, and of those, many do not drink
because they know that drinking and flying don't mix. If you drink, there's
always the possibility that you'll fly impaired, even if it's just by
accident. By avoiding drugs entirely, you also eliminate that possibility.
The same applies to other people who operate potentially dangerous machinery.
The easiest way to avoid being affected by drugs is to not take them in the
first place.
Likewise, the best pilots do not ever take their clothes off, because
that eliminates the possibility that they will ever fly an airplane
naked.
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
If no real debate is happening, isn't that in itself a refusal to debate?
I don't think I'm just splitting hairs here.

- Tom Schuler

:: Currently listening to The Animal, 1997, by Steve Vai, from "Passion and Warfare"
Zapanaz
2010-04-03 05:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
I don't know the drinking histories of these people.
I don't think knowing what you're talking about should be a
requirement to forming a staunchly-held opinion. I mean, what kind of
Naziism is that?
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
`His lips formed the words, but it was his heart which spoke them.' -- Bernard King, Starkadder

:: Currently listening to Since I Lost My Baby, 1965, by The Temptations, from "Temptin' Temptations"
Mike Ash
2010-03-26 19:27:29 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Jared
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
Thx Mx but exactly why is it bi-polar disqualifies me?
Like many psychiatric conditions, it interferes with good judgment. A person
in the manic phase of the disorder is likely to take unsafe risks, for
example, and a person in the depressive phase may be tempted to commit suicide
with his airplane. Although there is individual variation, severe cases of
bipolar are incompatible with operating vehicles or other machines that may
endanger the safety of the operator or others.
That sounds reasonable, but people with various kinds of mental
illness are not automatically disqualified from driving cars, even if
they've been involuntarily hospitalized.
My wife and I both passed our driving test without ever driving on a
freeway. That would be like passing your PPL practical without
performing a landing. I think FAA medical standards are way too strict
(and this is one reason why flying gliders in the US is so nice, no
medical checks) but car licensing is not a good model to follow.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
a***@gmail.com
2010-03-26 19:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
My wife and I both passed our driving test without ever driving on a
freeway. That would be like passing your PPL practical without
performing a landing. I think FAA medical standards are way too strict
(and this is one reason why flying gliders in the US is so nice, no
medical checks) but car licensing is not a good model to follow.
Too strict? Are you talking Class three or higher? I'd think that is
surprising Mike that you think too strict..

I am thankful for these medicals as basically the medical examiner is
the only "doctoring" I usually do.

My last two medicals caught two very serious conditions (asymptomatic)
that I would have never known and the exams were as "cursory" as they
get!
Mark
2010-03-26 20:31:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Mike Ash
My wife and I both passed our driving test without ever driving on a
freeway. That would be like passing your PPL practical without
performing a landing. I think FAA medical standards are way too strict
(and this is one reason why flying gliders in the US is so nice, no
medical checks) but car licensing is not a good model to follow.
Too strict? Are you talking Class three or higher? I'd think that is
surprising Mike that you think too strict..
I am thankful for these medicals as basically the medical examiner is
the only "doctoring" I usually do.
My last two medicals caught two very serious conditions (asymptomatic)
that I would have never known and the exams were as "cursory" as they
get!
Why are you always trying to hijack my threads?

I want someone to tell me exactly why Bi-Polar Disorder specifically
will not allow me to have my PPL?
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mike Ash
2010-03-26 20:41:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Mike Ash
My wife and I both passed our driving test without ever driving on a
freeway. That would be like passing your PPL practical without
performing a landing. I think FAA medical standards are way too strict
(and this is one reason why flying gliders in the US is so nice, no
medical checks) but car licensing is not a good model to follow.
Too strict? Are you talking Class three or higher? I'd think that is
surprising Mike that you think too strict..
I am thankful for these medicals as basically the medical examiner is
the only "doctoring" I usually do.
My last two medicals caught two very serious conditions (asymptomatic)
that I would have never known and the exams were as "cursory" as they
get!
Why are you always trying to hijack my threads?
I want someone to tell me exactly why Bi-Polar Disorder specifically
will not allow me to have my PPL?
The simplest answer is this: CFR 14 part 67.107a states, "No established
medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:". And
section 3 of that part lists, "A bipolar disorder." So, why does bipolar
disorder specifically not allow you to have your PPL? Because a PPL
requires a medical, and a medical requires you not to have any history
or diagnosis of various diseases, and bipolar disorder is specifically
listed in the regulations as a disqualifying condition.

If your question is why bipolar disorder is listed in the regulations,
that's more esoteric. The reasoning behind these things is not very
accessible even in the best of times. The discussion in this thread has
outlined some possible reasons, but ultimately it's not really something
you can know.

Does it matter? The condition is explicitly listed in the regs. Knowing
the reason why it's there won't change anything. If you want to become a
pilot, it would seem that you'll need to do it in a way that doesn't
require medical certification, like gliders or sport pilot.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Mark
2010-03-26 20:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by Mark
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Mike Ash
My wife and I both passed our driving test without ever driving on a
freeway. That would be like passing your PPL practical without
performing a landing. I think FAA medical standards are way too strict
(and this is one reason why flying gliders in the US is so nice, no
medical checks) but car licensing is not a good model to follow.
Too strict? Are you talking Class three or higher? I'd think that is
surprising Mike that you think too strict..
I am thankful for these medicals as basically the medical examiner is
the only "doctoring" I usually do.
My last two medicals caught two very serious conditions (asymptomatic)
that I would have never known and the exams were as "cursory" as they
get!
Why are you always trying to hijack my threads?
I want someone to tell me exactly why Bi-Polar Disorder specifically
will not allow me to have my PPL?
The simplest answer is this: CFR 14 part 67.107a states, "No established
medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:". And
section 3 of that part lists, "A bipolar disorder." So, why does bipolar
disorder specifically not allow you to have your PPL? Because a PPL
requires a medical, and a medical requires you not to have any history
or diagnosis of various diseases, and bipolar disorder is specifically
listed in the regulations as a disqualifying condition.
*Well, FUCKIT GODDAMNIT I HAVE SPENT A FORTUNE ON LESSONS*
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 20:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
*Well, FUCKIT GODDAMNIT I HAVE SPENT A FORTUNE ON LESSONS*
An attitude like this is one reason why bipolar disorder is disqualifying.
Mark
2010-03-26 21:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Mark
*Well, FUCKIT GODDAMNIT I HAVE SPENT A FORTUNE ON LESSONS*
An attitude like this is one reason why bipolar disorder is disqualifying.
???

One of you claims I am going to jail, the next is playing House with
my head?

You don't fly, do you?
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mark
2010-03-26 20:59:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
The condition is explicitly listed in the regs. Knowing
the reason why it's there won't change anything. If you want to become a
pilot, it would seem that you'll need to do it in a way that doesn't
require medical certification, like gliders or sport pilot.
Wait a minute. I have already got my license as I said above. Yes, I
am bi-polar as I posted that in alt.support.depression.manic last
Summer extensively. So it's out there. See below.

http://preview.xrl.in/4wjb
--
Mark The Pilot
Mike Ash
2010-03-26 20:35:33 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Mike Ash
My wife and I both passed our driving test without ever driving on a
freeway. That would be like passing your PPL practical without
performing a landing. I think FAA medical standards are way too strict
(and this is one reason why flying gliders in the US is so nice, no
medical checks) but car licensing is not a good model to follow.
Too strict? Are you talking Class three or higher? I'd think that is
surprising Mike that you think too strict..
Actually, the reverse. I'm in favor of relatively strict screening for
airline pilots, but don't see the point of it for somebody who's going
to fly a light plane for fun.

I know one fellow who had Hepatitis C and lost his medical. It did not
disable him in any way, except disabling his pilot certificate. Luckily
he was able to get it cured and got his medical back. He continued
flying gliders during the time that he lost his medical and had no
problem whatsoever, but the FAA decided that he was too unhealthy to be
allowed behind the stick of something with a propellor. It makes no
sense to me.

It's more likely that I'll kill innocent bystanders if I lose control or
exercise poor judgement while driving my car down I-495 than I would
while flying a small ASEL. And yet the medical requirements for the car
are basically non-existent.

I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him. I would *much* rather share my airspace with people
who are taking medication for depression or other psychological
difficulties than with people who are afraid to see a doctor to get
treatment because they will lose their flying privileges if they do.
Post by a***@gmail.com
I am thankful for these medicals as basically the medical examiner is
the only "doctoring" I usually do.
My last two medicals caught two very serious conditions (asymptomatic)
that I would have never known and the exams were as "cursory" as they
get!
If the FAA dropped the requirement, would you stop seeing the doctor? If
so, why, given that you are thankful for them?

I don't need the government to tell me when to see a doc. I'd much
rather handle that myself. If you want to have a physical every two
years, the FAA won't stop you!
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-26 20:44:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.

Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
Post by Mike Ash
I would *much* rather share my airspace with people
who are taking medication for depression or other psychological
difficulties than with people who are afraid to see a doctor to get
treatment because they will lose their flying privileges if they do.
Do you think that once medicated they still aren't crazoid? It doesn't
work that way.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 20:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There are many levels of mental illness, and not all of them interfere with
flying. Even the FAA recognizes this.

At the same time, there are personality characteristics that conflict strongly
with flying, and the FAA does nothing to screen for that. Pilots are much
more likely to crash because they have personality or attitude problems than
for any medical or psychiatric reasons.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Do you think that once medicated they still aren't crazoid? It doesn't
work that way.
It does sometimes, but psychiatric medicine is very hit and miss, so there are
no guarantees.
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-26 21:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by ♥Ari ♥
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There are many levels of mental illness, and not all of them interfere with
flying. Even the FAA recognizes this.
We're talking abut a guy who has clearly stated he is bi-polar.
Post by Mxsmanic
At the same time, there are personality characteristics that conflict strongly
with flying, and the FAA does nothing to screen for that. Pilots are much
more likely to crash because they have personality or attitude problems than
for any medical or psychiatric reasons.
You can't support that statement and the FAA can't screen for
"personality characteristics". Straw arguments 2 and 3.
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Do you think that once medicated they still aren't crazoid? It doesn't
work that way.
It does sometimes, but psychiatric medicine is very hit and miss, so there are
no guarantees.
At least we agree that Mark the Pilot should be sent to jail then.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 21:29:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
We're talking abut a guy who has clearly stated he is bi-polar.
There are many levels of severity in bipolar disorder.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
You can't support that statement and the FAA can't screen for
"personality characteristics".
The FAA already knows which personality characteristics correlate with poor
pilots. It doesn't screen for them with objective testing, but it could (I'm
not saying that it would be a good or bad idea, just pointing out that it's
doable).
Post by ♥Ari ♥
At least we agree that Mark the Pilot should be sent to jail then.
I don't know who Mark the Pilot is, and so I have no opinion concerning him.
In any case, it is not for me to pass this type of judgment.
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-26 22:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by ♥Ari ♥
We're talking abut a guy who has clearly stated he is bi-polar.
There are many levels of severity in bipolar disorder.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
You can't support that statement and the FAA can't screen for
"personality characteristics".
The FAA already knows which personality characteristics correlate with poor
pilots. It doesn't screen for them with objective testing, but it could (I'm
not saying that it would be a good or bad idea, just pointing out that it's
doable).
Post by ♥Ari ♥
At least we agree that Mark the Pilot should be sent to jail then.
I don't know who Mark the Pilot is, and so I have no opinion concerning him.
In any case, it is not for me to pass this type of judgment.
You have an affinity for stating the absolutely obvious then ducking
as the absolutely obvious smacks you right in the face.
--
Ari's Fun Times!
http://tr.im/hrFG
Motto: Run, rabbit, Run!
Jim Logajan
2010-03-26 22:48:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
We're talking abut a guy who has clearly stated he is bi-polar.
Actually, this is a bogus thread started by someone who is playing games
with Usenet posters and cross-posting it to several unrelated groups. The
tip-off should have been the addition of alt.religion.kibology and
alt.slack groups.

In fact the poster does have mental health problems, but that's about the
only conclusion I feel can be safely drawn. He doesn't realize (and
wouldn't be convinced) that he's placed the real Mark on a pedestal and
elevated him to a high profile place in his life. I suppose that makes him
a stalker. Not sure if the real Mark ran over this fellow's cat or what,
but the fellow does have an obsession.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
At least we agree that Mark the Pilot should be sent to jail then.
The person posting from x-privat.org and eternal-september.org and likely
doesn't fly, or the one posting from Google?
Mike Ash
2010-03-26 21:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.

There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 21:53:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
There are cases of pilots without depression who became so depressed after
losing their medical that they killed themselves ... during one last flight in
their airplanes. Perverse incentives indeed.

Of course, some pilots who lose their medicals simply continue flying, just as
some drivers who lose their licenses continue to drive.
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-26 22:21:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
There are cases of pilots without depression who became so depressed after
losing their medical that they killed themselves ... during one last flight in
their airplanes
Somebody check on mark immediately!!!!
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-26 22:21:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
Post by Mike Ash
There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
like airplanes stuff.

Not the mental health issues.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mike Ash
2010-03-27 02:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
prescription, and loses his medical.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
like airplanes stuff.
Not the mental health issues.
It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
operating heavy machinery such as cars.

According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
regardless of what they are:

http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm

Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
question rather than having a blanket ban?
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Mxsmanic
2010-03-27 03:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe?
Yes: They are psychotropic. And that can affect judgment.
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-27 13:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
prescription, and loses his medical.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
like airplanes stuff.
Not the mental health issues.
It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
operating heavy machinery such as cars.
According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
question rather than having a blanket ban?
Yes, let's test each and every individual after each and every dose
and see if they are capable of each and every...

Are you a Mx clone?
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mike Ash
2010-03-27 15:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
prescription, and loses his medical.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
like airplanes stuff.
Not the mental health issues.
It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
operating heavy machinery such as cars.
According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
question rather than having a blanket ban?
Yes, let's test each and every individual after each and every dose
and see if they are capable of each and every...
Are you a Mx clone?
We do it for physical problems. If you have a heart attack, or heart
surgery, or other things of that nature, it is not automatically
disqualifying. Instead, the doctor and the FAA get together and decide
whether you're fit to fly. It's far from an automatic no. If they can do
it for heart problems, why not for brain problems?
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-27 15:59:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect that I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
prescription, and loses his medical.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
like airplanes stuff.
Not the mental health issues.
It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
operating heavy machinery such as cars.
According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
question rather than having a blanket ban?
Yes, let's test each and every individual after each and every dose
and see if they are capable of each and every...
Are you a Mx clone?
We do it for physical problems. If you have a heart attack, or heart
surgery, or other things of that nature, it is not automatically
disqualifying. Instead, the doctor and the FAA get together and decide
whether you're fit to fly. It's far from an automatic no. If they can do
it for heart problems, why not for brain problems?
Mike, I'd tell you but I doubt your brain would accept the answer.
--
Ari's Fun Times!
http://tr.im/hrFG
Motto: Run, rabbit, Run!
Mike Ash
2010-03-27 16:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect
that
I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
prescription, and loses his medical.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
like airplanes stuff.
Not the mental health issues.
It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
operating heavy machinery such as cars.
According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
question rather than having a blanket ban?
Yes, let's test each and every individual after each and every dose
and see if they are capable of each and every...
Are you a Mx clone?
We do it for physical problems. If you have a heart attack, or heart
surgery, or other things of that nature, it is not automatically
disqualifying. Instead, the doctor and the FAA get together and decide
whether you're fit to fly. It's far from an automatic no. If they can do
it for heart problems, why not for brain problems?
Mike, I'd tell you but I doubt your brain would accept the answer.
Yes, why engage in a discussion when you can just throw insults around?

I'm trying to remember why I stay subscribed to this group, and am not
coming up with any answers....
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
♥Ari ♥
2010-03-27 21:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
I find their policy toward psychiatric conditions to be especially
terrible. From what I understand, the medications used to treat problems
such as depression are considered disqualifying by the FAA. So let's say
I'm a private pilot in a class that needs a medical and I suspect
that
I
have depression. What do I do? If I value my ability to fly, I keep it
to myself and do not seek treatment! No AME will be able to detect that
I suffer from depression if I don't seek treatment and am careful to
hide it from him.
You got to be shitting me.
Have you never been around a truly manic/bi-polar crazoid? They
haven't a clue what they are doing and if they don't manage their
meds, which when they are crazoid they don't, they get craziodier.
There's a reason I mentioned depression as an example. A person
suffering from moderate depression could go through life never knowing
he had a problem. He could get an FAA medical and a PPL and go flying.
Then one day he realizes he has a problem, gets a prescription for
Prozac from his doctor, is on his way to better mental health, but now
the FAA decides he's no longer safe to fly. It makes no sense and places
some strong perverse incentives in the system.
How can this person go from a no problem state to "I've got a problem"
state if he hasn't changed his depressive state? If he is depressed
and it's okey dokey with him, then the assumption is that his
depression isn't harmful to himself or others. Inconvenient maybe,
yeah, but it isn't adversely affecting his daily life.
This does not follow. A person can be depressed and not know what's
going on. It is not uncommon for depression to be diagnosed years after
it begins. The sufferer himself has no baseline for comparison, and
those around him think it's just personality. Then maybe he starts
wondering why he feels X and Y and Z, happens across a list of
depression symptoms, connects the dots, sees a doctor, gets a
prescription, and loses his medical.
Post by ♥Ari ♥
Post by Mike Ash
There are certainly mental illnesses which mean that the sufferer should
never be PIC of anything. But there are a lot of mental illnesses which
won't interfere with one's ability to pilot an airplane, and the FAA's
blanket denial of medicals to anyone taking any sort of medication for
them is, in my view, a bad thing. If they're going to require medicals
for light aircraft, it ought to be much more nuanced than this.
I would imagine the FAA is denying because of the potential
prescriptive side effects you know like "Don't Use Heavy Machinery"
like airplanes stuff.
Not the mental health issues.
It's possible, but I don't see how that would be justified either. The
listed side effects for e.g. Prozac don't look very bad in this regard.
There is the possibility of nausea, loss of coordination, trouble
concentrating, and things of that nature, but I don't think they're
common, and ordinary people can have those problems as well. Given that
millions of people take it, I'll bet a lot of them are regularly
operating heavy machinery such as cars.
According to this page, the FAA prohibits all psychotropic medications
http://www.leftseat.com/psychiatric.htm
Do they all have nasty side effects that would make a pilot unsafe? It
doesn't seem likely. Even if they *might* have such side effects,
wouldn't it be better to see how the drug affects the individual in
question rather than having a blanket ban?
Yes, let's test each and every individual after each and every dose
and see if they are capable of each and every...
Are you a Mx clone?
We do it for physical problems. If you have a heart attack, or heart
surgery, or other things of that nature, it is not automatically
disqualifying. Instead, the doctor and the FAA get together and decide
whether you're fit to fly. It's far from an automatic no. If they can do
it for heart problems, why not for brain problems?
Mike, I'd tell you but I doubt your brain would accept the answer.
Yes, why engage in a discussion when you can just throw insults around?
I'm trying to remember why I stay subscribed to this group, and am not
coming up with any answers....
There ya' go. You can't answer your own known issues, why would you
expect me to argue in circles with you about things you know little to
nothing about?

That what MxTheIgnoramus is for.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mxsmanic
2010-03-27 16:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
We do it for physical problems. If you have a heart attack, or heart
surgery, or other things of that nature, it is not automatically
disqualifying. Instead, the doctor and the FAA get together and decide
whether you're fit to fly. It's far from an automatic no. If they can do
it for heart problems, why not for brain problems?
Cardiovascular problems are far better understood than psychiatric problems.
The state of knowledge of the latter has hardly advanced beyond that which
could be obtained by throwing darts.
a***@gmail.com
2010-03-26 21:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
If the FAA dropped the requirement, would you stop seeing the doctor? If
so, why, given that you are thankful for them?
That's it Mark in the nutshell. Feeling healthy didn't reveal the
silent killers of life. I can't now since I am on FAA approved
medications that require 1 year renewals but had it not been for the
medication, I'd probably just rely on the FAA exam and not even see a
doc.

Prior to my first FAA exam, I couldn't tell you when I was seen by a
doc (20 to 25 years?) outside dental and vision.
Mark
2010-03-26 22:22:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@gmail.com
Post by Mike Ash
If the FAA dropped the requirement, would you stop seeing the doctor? If
so, why, given that you are thankful for them?
That's it Mark in the nutshell.
Who you talking to?

You're the crazy one.
--
Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 20:55:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
My wife and I both passed our driving test without ever driving on a
freeway. That would be like passing your PPL practical without
performing a landing. I think FAA medical standards are way too strict
(and this is one reason why flying gliders in the US is so nice, no
medical checks) but car licensing is not a good model to follow.
Agreed. The FAA worries about too many things that don't matter, and doesn't
worry enough about the things that do.

As for drivers, the problem is that many people need to drive in everyday
life, or even to keep a job, so even though tighter testing procedures would
improve safety, it would also disenfranchise a large part of the population.

And even in the case of driving, the things tested for are rarely important,
whereas the things that aren't tested for are often very important (such as
substance abuse).
Zapanaz
2010-03-26 20:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
And even in the case of driving, the things tested for are rarely important,
whereas the things that aren't tested for are often very important (such as
substance abuse).
Like those nicotine addicts, who are a menace to everything on the
highway.
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
Although golf was originally restricted to wealthy, overweight Protestants, today it's open to anybody who owns hideous clothing.
- Dave Barry

:: Currently listening to New Country, 1975, by Jean-Luc Ponty, from "Imaginary Voyage"
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 21:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zapanaz
Like those nicotine addicts, who are a menace to everything on the
highway.
Do you smoke?

Smoking is bad for pilots, as they are more likely to be affected by hypoxia,
even at fairly low altitudes. For example, night vision deteriorates more
quickly in smokers with altitude than it does with non-smokers, and they may
be impaired even as low as 5000 feet.
Zapanaz
2010-03-26 21:12:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Zapanaz
Like those nicotine addicts, who are a menace to everything on the
highway.
Do you smoke?
Smoking is bad for pilots, as they are more likely to be affected by hypoxia,
even at fairly low altitudes. For example, night vision deteriorates more
quickly in smokers with altitude than it does with non-smokers, and they may
be impaired even as low as 5000 feet.
my point just whooshed right over your head, didn't it?
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
Post by Mxsmanic
Has anyone else been saving up lighters to donate to the Pagan's lighter
burial ground at Bwood?
no, I've been saving my lighters for the guitar solo in "Stairway to
Heaven"

:: Currently listening to Jeanny Part 1, 1985, by Falco, from "The Hit-Single"
Mxsmanic
2010-03-26 21:29:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zapanaz
my point just whooshed right over your head, didn't it?
My point concerns aviation, the nominal domain of the discussion.
Zapanaz
2010-03-26 22:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
Post by Zapanaz
my point just whooshed right over your head, didn't it?
My point concerns aviation, the nominal domain of the discussion.
The medical standards for driving a car are extremely lenient, since so many
people need to drive cars, and since experience has shown that incapacitation
due to medical conditions is rare, even with low medical standards (something
that aviation has not yet acknowledged).
The most common cause of incapacitation in automobile drivers is alcohol
intoxication, and yet, oddly enough, being a user of alcohol does not
disqualify one from driving a car (in fact, it doesn't even disqualify a
person from being a pilot).
It's odd how double standards develop. If you had one seizure when you were
five years old, you may not be able to get a pilot's license, but if you drink
alcohol until you lose consciousness three times a week, that's okay.
--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
What good fortune for those of us in power that people do not think.

- Adolf Hitler, mass murderer, politician

:: Currently listening to Plock, 1999, by Plone, from "For Beginner Piano"
Alpha Propellerhead
2010-03-31 21:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark
Thanks, Mxsmanic.
I appreciate the straightforward, honest and accurate answer.
Except he isn't a pilot and doesn't live in the US.

Talk to a medical examiner or the FSDO. One of my students has a
health condition and wanted me to tell the doctor that it was "okay"
before he filled out the application. The doctor called me back and
spoke for about 45 minutes about the disorder. Said that one bad
diagnosis by an incompetent doctor can ruin your life and you may have
to get a second opinion somewhere.

He also told me that of all of the people who reported the disorder to
the FAA on their medical exam, only two are flying today. On the
flipside, two people are flying with the disorder. Maybe they had mild
cases and the examiner signed them off, maybe they just tried a little
harder.

DO NOT EVER LET ANYBODY WHO IS NOT THE FAA OR A MEDICAL EXAMINER
CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU CANNOT FLY because most of them, like our friend
above, never have, never will, and wouldn't given the opportunity. The
reality is, though, it's probably a long shot for Private but that
doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

-Chris
CFI, commercial pilot
Ari
2010-03-31 22:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
Post by Mark
Thanks, Mxsmanic.
I appreciate the straightforward, honest and accurate answer.
Except he isn't a pilot and doesn't live in the US.
Talk to a medical examiner or the FSDO. One of my students has a
health condition and wanted me to tell the doctor that it was "okay"
before he filled out the application. The doctor called me back and
spoke for about 45 minutes about the disorder. Said that one bad
diagnosis by an incompetent doctor can ruin your life and you may have
to get a second opinion somewhere.
He also told me that of all of the people who reported the disorder to
the FAA on their medical exam, only two are flying today. On the
flipside, two people are flying with the disorder. Maybe they had mild
cases and the examiner signed them off, maybe they just tried a little
harder.
DO NOT EVER LET ANYBODY WHO IS NOT THE FAA OR A MEDICAL EXAMINER
CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU CANNOT FLY because most of them, like our friend
above, never have, never will, and wouldn't given the opportunity. The
reality is, though, it's probably a long shot for Private but that
doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
-Chris
CFI, commercial pilot
Agree with this post. The problem is that Mark (who also trolls under
the name Uncle Al to hie his identity) has admitted to being severely
mentally disabled, publicly, on Usenet and I am sure with people who
know him. Bi polars with his level of incapability, depressive mood
swings, and manic activities don't waltz around South Carolina
unnoticed.

He has his PPL. There is no way in God's Hades that he got it legally.
He either lied, paid off the doc or failed to report his conditions.

I would have had no problem with him trying. As hard as he wanted. He
would have failed and that would be that. He could have gotten his SP
(I think) since unless his CFI reported the looney bin he wouldn't
have had to go through a medicals.

But no,he has to stroke his ever growing ego, commit a felony or six
and put all the Earth he flies over and every plane he flies near in
danger of carnage.

What a guy.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mxsmanic
2010-04-01 01:47:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ari
Agree with this post. The problem is that Mark (who also trolls under
the name Uncle Al to hie his identity) has admitted to being severely
mentally disabled, publicly, on Usenet and I am sure with people who
know him. Bi polars with his level of incapability, depressive mood
swings, and manic activities don't waltz around South Carolina
unnoticed.
He has his PPL. There is no way in God's Hades that he got it legally.
He either lied, paid off the doc or failed to report his conditions.
It's impossible to make an assessment like this through USENET postings alone.
People often are assumed to be something they aren't on USENET. There is a
tendency in most people to fill in any blanks with projection or simple
(biased) imagination.
a***@gmail.com
2010-04-01 14:28:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mxsmanic
or simple
(biased) imagination.
Wow, very nice description of yourself Mx.

Are you finally coming around to the fact that MSFX Baron add in
across on a simulated XC is not flying an airplane?
Mike Ash
2010-04-01 14:06:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ari
But no,he has to stroke his ever growing ego, commit a felony or six
and put all the Earth he flies over and every plane he flies near in
danger of carnage.
This kind of sensationalism grates enormously.

IF what you say about him is true, then there is a *small* increased
risk to those around him while flying. Much smaller than the increased
risk to drivers and pedestrians while he operates a car, something he
can do completely legally.

None of us are perfect, and neither are our aircraft. There's always a
risk of a crash. Do all of us "put all the Earth he flies over and every
plane he flies near in danger of carnage"? Technically, yes, but to word
it like that is to cloud the facts.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Ari
2010-04-01 16:20:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by Ari
But no,he has to stroke his ever growing ego, commit a felony or six
and put all the Earth he flies over and every plane he flies near in
danger of carnage.
This kind of sensationalism grates enormously.
IF what you say about him is true, then there is a *small* increased
risk to those around him while flying. Much smaller than the increased
risk to drivers and pedestrians while he operates a car, something he
can do completely legally.
None of us are perfect, and neither are our aircraft. There's always a
risk of a crash. Do all of us "put all the Earth he flies over and every
plane he flies near in danger of carnage"? Technically, yes, but to word
it like that is to cloud the facts.
I look forward to having you right seat with this nutcase.
--
All you Ferrari drivers, come join us @ www.ferrarichat.com !
All you pilots, jump into the left seat @ www.airlinepilotforums.com !
Mxsmanic
2010-04-01 01:45:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
DO NOT EVER LET ANYBODY WHO IS NOT THE FAA OR A MEDICAL EXAMINER
CONVINCE YOU THAT YOU CANNOT FLY because most of them, like our friend
above, never have, never will, and wouldn't given the opportunity.
It has nothing to do with flying or being given the opportunity. There's
nothing magic about having flown or wanting to fly that would make a AME or
the FAA more qualified to determine medical fitness.

And the AME's word is not final, although it is influential. In fact, even the
FAA's word is not final, since it sometimes changes its mind. Ultimately the
decision is made by the FAA, and since the FAA is a Federal agency and not a
pilot, the decision is made by a non-flying entity without "opportunities."
Nevertheless, that decision is binding.
Post by Alpha Propellerhead
The reality is, though, it's probably a long shot for Private but that
doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
Which I've pointed out. Which in turn makes me wonder exactly whom you are
arguing with.
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