Discussion:
Five Hours
(too old to reply)
Mike Ash
2009-08-24 04:15:59 UTC
Permalink
I went off to the gliderport today thinking it would be a fairly decent
day. The forecast was so-so, but I hadn't flown in two weeks and was
getting kind of antsy. I figured that at the very least I could get in a
couple of full-flap landings. (I've only started doing these in the past
month or two, and they're VERY fun. Literally about a 1:1 glideslope.)

When I showed up at about 10:30, two other people were already
assembling gliders, and I joined the fun. Assembled pretty quickly, then
started the waiting game. The first fellow to show up launched fairly
quickly, at about 12:20 or so, and didn't come back down. The rest of us
followed.

I released at 2,900ft (2,200ft above the airport) after seeing the tow
plane take a big jump upward, and feeling my glider follow along. It was
a boomer for this area and this time of year, giving me a steady 4kt
(400fpm) climb up to 4,200ft. Then I hit the cloud, so I left and
started to explore. The clouds were not completely reliable but they
were pretty good.

Not too long afterwards I was thermalling with the first fellow who
launched. He was a couple hundred feet above me, on the opposite side of
the circle. I got the turn worked out, started to relax, and began to
admire his glider. So pretty, and such a nice shape. I particularly
liked the curved underside where his landing gear goes when it comes
out....

Oh crap! I forgot to retract my gear!

Aside from that, things went well. Even when a cloud didn't work out, I
was high enough and could explore far enough to get to one that did. I
never got much below my original release altitude, and could always
climb back up.

I took this video about 90 minutes in:



By the time I got to two hours aloft, I was feeling pretty good about
this flight. Not that two hours is all that special to me anymore, but
it's a nice benchmark to reach. At that point I thought I'd see if I
could make it to three hours, which I've only done a few times.

Sometime around this point I took this picture:

Loading Image....html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1

Check the middle for the airliner, which looked a lot closer than it
looks in that picture. I guesstimate 1000ft above me and about two miles
away, but I could be way off. Looked like a 737 or A320. Pretty cool to
watch it fly by.

Made three hours. Started to think about beating my previous duration
record of 3 hours 40 minutes. Wouldn't take too much; from the 4-5000ft
altitudes I was achieving, I could get 20-30 minutes just descending to
the pattern.

The lift was disappearing, though. I hooked up with a friend flying a
club single-seater, and as we circled together, he asked, "How are you
doing, H3?" I replied, "Pretty good, but struggling, it looks like the
day is starting to die." He came back, "Yep, same here."

We circled together for a bit, then headed off on slightly different
paths. By this time I was down to about 3,000ft. Hit a bump, then more
than a bump, and started working a 2kt thermal out in the blue.
Meanwhile my friend started working something about a mile away, but it
wasn't very good because he dropped below my altitude fairly quickly.
Then he headed off further and I didn't see him again. As I climbed
through 4,000ft I heard from him, though, as he called in to enter the
pattern.

I had my record broken. 3 hours 40 minutes was mine, and then some. Next
thought was to 4 hours. That would be a pretty cool milestone to hit.
But that thermal quit at 4,200ft and signs weren't good. I headed off
toward a likely-looking cloud anyway, hopeful. Hit it, bump, up, good!
Saw 4-kts out of it, way more than I was expecting by this time of day.
On the way up, I saw that I had 4 hours made. Now, logically, I started
to think about the possibility of doing 5 hours. I was getting pretty
tired, but as I climbed I started to feel more alert and awake, like a
second wind. But would conditions allow it? It seemed unlikely.

A club two-seater took off on an instructional flight and I mentioned my
thermal, so they headed over on tow. I hit the top around 4,200ft again,
stuck around just long enough to mark it for them, then headed for some
better looking clouds. They weren't just better looking, they were
better, period! These gave me a 5-6kt climb to 5,900ft, my best altitude
of the day, and at 5pm!

Two questions remained: how long would this last, and how long would *I*
last?

Around this point I took this video:



I was actually just about defeated at that point, and was cruising
aimlessly, but blundered into nice lift and could not pass it up.

I started thinking about using this flight for my Silver Duration badge,
which requires a five-hour flight. One trick: it requires five hours
*after release from tow*. Practically speaking that would mean about
5:05, not a big difference, but I couldn't shave it too close. And I was
really thinking about shaving it. I was well over 4 hours in the air at
this point but wasn't sure I could make it to 5, much less 5 plus
anything.

Yet, somehow, the lift kept getting better. I was completely worn out
and was not up to any more aggressive flying. Glider pilots refer to
"working" lift, and for good reason: flying tight circles at a 45-degree
bank in a turbulent thermal at just above stall speed is hard work!
Tired as I was, I used shallow banks and didn't keep my speed low, but I
still had no trouble staying airborne. Soon I had 5 hours made, then 5
hours plus a bit of a pad.

Decided it was time. The lift was *still* working, but I had had enough.
No hurry to descend, but I just quit trying to stay up at all and just
cruised around. And yet still I found lift, sometimes two or three miles
of straight flying where I wouldn't descend, or would even gain 1-200ft.
But still, the overall was down, and I finally found myself running
through my landing checklist. No activity at the airport by this time,
and no wind, so the landing itself was a piece of cake. Came in with
full flaps and full spoilers (WHEE!) and I was down at 6:13PM. Total
time in the air: 5 hours 23 minutes.

This was a really great flight. I got to watch a whole day's operations
from the air. I got to test my skills and modify my strategy as the day
went from strong to weak and back to strong again. I got to circle with
red-tailed hawks and, no kidding, five party balloons.

And since I can't resist being insufferably smug to this audience of
mostly power pilots, I have to mention how this entire flight, all 5.4
hours of it, cost me a grand total of $28. Call it $40 if you want to
include the cost of driving to the airport.

Anyway, it was a wonderful time and I just had to share. Now all I have
to do is figure out how to get the flight off my flight recorder and
I'll have my Silver Duration badge.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
BeechSundowner
2009-08-24 12:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
And since I can't resist being insufferably smug to this audience of
mostly power pilots, I have to mention how this entire flight, all 5.4
hours of it, cost me a grand total of $28. Call it $40 if you want to
include the cost of driving to the airport.
Anyway, it was a wonderful time and I just had to share. Now all I have
to do is figure out how to get the flight off my flight recorder and
I'll have my Silver Duration badge.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
VERY, VERY cool Mike, Congrats on your Silver Duration badge!

Yep, the price is right :-))))))
Mike Ash
2009-08-24 16:25:27 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by BeechSundowner
Post by Mike Ash
And since I can't resist being insufferably smug to this audience of
mostly power pilots, I have to mention how this entire flight, all 5.4
hours of it, cost me a grand total of $28. Call it $40 if you want to
include the cost of driving to the airport.
Anyway, it was a wonderful time and I just had to share. Now all I have
to do is figure out how to get the flight off my flight recorder and
I'll have my Silver Duration badge.
VERY, VERY cool Mike, Congrats on your Silver Duration badge!
Yep, the price is right :-))))))
Thank you!
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Morgans
2009-08-25 03:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
And since I can't resist being insufferably smug to this audience of
mostly power pilots, I have to mention how this entire flight, all 5.4
hours of it, cost me a grand total of $28. Call it $40 if you want to
include the cost of driving to the airport.
Congrats, indeed! Sounds like you had a fantastic time!

I think I need to design a light sport, amphibian seaplane, self launching
motor-glider, all-in-one.

Humm, what category would that be classified? Really, I think it could be
done! <g>
--
Jim in NC
Jim Logajan
2009-08-25 05:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morgans
Post by Mike Ash
And since I can't resist being insufferably smug to this audience
of mostly power pilots, I have to mention how this entire flight,
all 5.4 hours of it, cost me a grand total of $28. Call it $40 if
you want to include the cost of driving to the airport.
Congrats, indeed! Sounds like you had a fantastic time!
I think I need to design a light sport, amphibian seaplane, self
launching motor-glider, all-in-one.
Humm, what category would that be classified? Really, I think it
could be done! <g>
Hmmm - suppose one puts floats on a Sonex Xenos Motorglider
(sorta like this, but having the longer Xenos wings:
http://www.sonexaircraft.com/press/releases/pr_040204.html
)

Okay - perhaps a tad draggy - maybe figure out a way to make them deflate
and retract for cruise?

;-)
Morgans
2009-08-26 05:24:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Logajan
Hmmm - suppose one puts floats on a Sonex Xenos Motorglider
http://www.sonexaircraft.com/press/releases/pr_040204.html
)
Okay - perhaps a tad draggy - maybe figure out a way to make them deflate
and retract for cruise?
Well, for one, it is the ugliest thing I have ever seen on a wing. Well,
almost. It also is not a flying boat hull. That would have been more
precise for me to say, I guess.

I don't think it is possible to get low enough drag to go more than 100
knots on around a hundred ponies, unless it would be a flying boat type
hull.
--
Jim in NC
Stealth Pilot
2009-08-25 08:14:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:48:45 -0400, "Morgans"
Post by Morgans
I think I need to design a light sport, amphibian seaplane, self launching
motor-glider, all-in-one.
bullshit.
go on prove me wrong and design one... glide ratio/lift drag ratio has
to be above 15 to 1.
bet you cant.

Stealth Pilot
Morgans
2009-08-26 10:11:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stealth Pilot
bullshit.
go on prove me wrong and design one... glide ratio/lift drag ratio has
to be above 15 to 1.
bet you cant.
Dang, now you threw down on me! Where is that dang T-square and triangles I
put up somewhere?

First, to fit the US definition of a motorglider, there is no glide
ratio/lift drag ratio that has to be considered to meet the definition. It
only has span to weight to figure the formula. That makes things much
easier to fit all the pieces together.

Perhaps it isn't possible. I think it could come very close, though. If
nothing else, it will be an interesting thought process.
--
Jim in NC
Mark Hansen
2009-08-24 15:13:50 UTC
Permalink
Congratulations, Mike! Very nice write-up.

... and from one power pilot, let me say I hope very much that you
continue posting your adventures. I really enjoy reading them. And
who knows - you may convert me yet! :-)
--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
Mike Ash
2009-08-24 16:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Hansen
Congratulations, Mike! Very nice write-up.
... and from one power pilot, let me say I hope very much that you
continue posting your adventures. I really enjoy reading them. And
who knows - you may convert me yet! :-)
Thanks. I'm glad you enjoy them. Of course I enjoy all this
powered-flight talk in here as well, and just like to offer a little
something different from time to time.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
romeomike
2009-08-25 01:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Congrats, not only for the flight but for bladder control!
Post by Mike Ash
Anyway, it was a wonderful time and I just had to share. Now all I have
to do is figure out how to get the flight off my flight recorder and
I'll have my Silver Duration badge.
Mike Ash
2009-08-25 03:05:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by romeomike
Congrats, not only for the flight but for bladder control!
Hah! I have a pilot relief system, and good thing too. I literally lost
count of the number of times I had to use it....

IMO it's essential to have one for long flights, or at least something
that you can use for that purpose. Otherwise it's too tempting to skimp
on water intake in order to last longer, and suffer the ensuing
cognitive deficit from dehydration.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
romeomike
2009-08-25 03:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by romeomike
Congrats, not only for the flight but for bladder control!
Hah! I have a pilot relief system, and good thing too. I literally lost
count of the number of times I had to use it....
IMO it's essential to have one for long flights, or at least something
that you can use for that purpose. Otherwise it's too tempting to skimp
on water intake in order to last longer, and suffer the ensuing
cognitive deficit from dehydration.
Yeah, I used to fly a twin that had a funnel on the end of a plastic
tube that just vented to the outside. I'm sure that is not the system
you have :-)
Mike Ash
2009-08-25 14:08:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by romeomike
Post by Mike Ash
Post by romeomike
Congrats, not only for the flight but for bladder control!
Hah! I have a pilot relief system, and good thing too. I literally lost
count of the number of times I had to use it....
IMO it's essential to have one for long flights, or at least something
that you can use for that purpose. Otherwise it's too tempting to skimp
on water intake in order to last longer, and suffer the ensuing
cognitive deficit from dehydration.
Yeah, I used to fly a twin that had a funnel on the end of a plastic
tube that just vented to the outside. I'm sure that is not the system
you have :-)
Mine is not all that much different. Instead of a funnel, there's an
external catheter, and then a long tube that finds its way outside
through the wheel well. (A funnel would be really tough to use because
the seating position has the lower body nearly horizontal.)

That it runs out through the wheel well means you have to lower the gear
to use the system. This fact, combined with a nice long chain of events
as is always the case, resulted in my partner landing gear-up a few
months ago. Ouch!
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
BeechSundowner
2009-08-25 13:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Hah! I have a pilot relief system, and good thing too. I literally lost
count of the number of times I had to use it....
Takes to new meaning on that song "it's raining men, hallalulah!" and
the humidity is rising LOL
Mike Ash
2009-08-25 14:33:40 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by BeechSundowner
Post by Mike Ash
Hah! I have a pilot relief system, and good thing too. I literally lost
count of the number of times I had to use it....
Takes to new meaning on that song "it's raining men, hallalulah!" and
the humidity is rising LOL
This raises a question: does the stuff evaporate before it hits the
ground?

I assume so it does. It has to fall a pretty good distance, humidity
isn't too high (otherwise I'd be in the clouds!) and it's, er, warm. But
still, I wonder. I did deliberately refrain from opening up while over
the town, just in case....
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
BeechSundowner
2009-08-25 16:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
This raises a question: does the stuff evaporate before it hits the
ground?
I assume so it does. It has to fall a pretty good distance, humidity
isn't too high (otherwise I'd be in the clouds!) and it's, er, warm. But
still, I wonder. I did deliberately refrain from opening up while over
the town, just in case....
I would think it probably evaporates but maybe not as fast as clean
water? It's not underneath you that would worry me, but downwind :-)
if the stuff indeed makes it to ground level. So opening up over the
town probably best place to be!
Mike Ash
2009-08-26 04:07:44 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by BeechSundowner
Post by Mike Ash
This raises a question: does the stuff evaporate before it hits the
ground?
I assume so it does. It has to fall a pretty good distance, humidity
isn't too high (otherwise I'd be in the clouds!) and it's, er, warm. But
still, I wonder. I did deliberately refrain from opening up while over
the town, just in case....
I would think it probably evaporates but maybe not as fast as clean
water? It's not underneath you that would worry me, but downwind :-)
if the stuff indeed makes it to ground level. So opening up over the
town probably best place to be!
There was basically no wind that day, but otherwise this is an
interesting point. I'll have to keep it in mind for windier days....
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
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