Opinions requested from CFIs on training planes

[es330td]

Midway through my Private I moved to another state and have
transferred to a new CFI & flight school. The only school in my area
has two planes (a Mustang and a C172) and with several students
availability is questionable at times, especially for the 172. All my
training thus far has been in C172's. My father who lives about 80 nm
away has a C182 he is offering to make available to me so that I will
have access to a plane whenever I need to finish my license and all I
have to pay for is oil and gas. He has discussed this with his
insurance company. I realize that the 182 is High Performance but my
bigger concern is its avionics. The plane has (to me) a staggering
amount of avionics as it is IFR and WAAS equipped. As I have flown
with him many times in this plane I am not worried about learning the
prop controls; I am worried about what a checkride would be like in
this plane. I have heard that an examiner can ask about anything in
the examination plane so between the 430, 496, strike finder and
traffic radar I am quite intimidated by the prospect of being
questioned about their usage on a checkride. I realize that I could
do all my solo work in the 182 and then do the checkride in the
school's 172 as well though I don't know what the examiner would think
about me doing all my practice in a different plane than my checkride
plane.

Can I get some opinions from some CFI's on these options?

[Mark Hansen]

Post by es330td
Midway through my Private I moved to another state and have
transferred to a new CFI & flight school. The only school in my area
has two planes (a Mustang and a C172) and with several students
availability is questionable at times, especially for the 172. All my
training thus far has been in C172's. My father who lives about 80 nm
away has a C182 he is offering to make available to me so that I will
have access to a plane whenever I need to finish my license and all I
have to pay for is oil and gas. He has discussed this with his
insurance company. I realize that the 182 is High Performance but my
bigger concern is its avionics. The plane has (to me) a staggering
amount of avionics as it is IFR and WAAS equipped. As I have flown
with him many times in this plane I am not worried about learning the
prop controls; I am worried about what a checkride would be like in
this plane. I have heard that an examiner can ask about anything in
the examination plane so between the 430, 496, strike finder and
traffic radar I am quite intimidated by the prospect of being
questioned about their usage on a checkride. I realize that I could
do all my solo work in the 182 and then do the checkride in the
school's 172 as well though I don't know what the examiner would think
about me doing all my practice in a different plane than my checkride
plane.
Can I get some opinions from some CFI's on these options?

I'm not a CFI, but I have a couple thoughts on your situation. First, is
it possible you could placard some of the devices as inoperable during
the check ride?

As far as what the examiner will think of you practicing in the 182 and
taking your check ride in the 172, why would they care? You will be
judged based on your performance during the check ride. If you perform
to standards (or better), you'll pass.

Sounds like a great opportunity! I wish I knew someone that could have
made such a deal available to me during my training.

Will you be flying the 182 after you get your certificate? If so, then
the more "practice" time you get, the better.

Best of luck!

[es330td]

Post by Mark Hansen

Post by es330td
Midway through my Private I moved to another state and have
transferred to a new CFI & flight school. The only school in my area
has two planes (a Mustang and a C172) and with several students
availability is questionable at times, especially for the 172.  All my
training thus far has been in C172's.  My father who lives about 80 nm
away has a C182 he is offering to make available to me so that I will
have access to a plane whenever I need to finish my license and all I
have to pay for is oil and gas. He has discussed this with his
insurance company.  I realize that the 182 is High Performance but my
bigger concern is its avionics.  The plane has (to me) a staggering
amount of avionics as it is IFR and WAAS equipped.  As I have flown
with him many times in this plane I am not worried about learning the
prop controls; I am worried about what a checkride would be like in
this plane.  I have heard that an examiner can ask about anything in
the examination plane so between the 430, 496, strike finder and
traffic radar I am quite intimidated by the prospect of being
questioned about their usage on a checkride.  I realize that I could
do all my solo work in the 182 and then do the checkride in the
school's 172 as well though I don't know what the examiner would think
about me doing all my practice in a different plane than my checkride
plane.
Can I get some opinions from some CFI's on these options?

I'm not a CFI, but I have a couple thoughts on your situation. First, is
it possible you could placard some of the devices as inoperable during
the check ride?
As far as what the examiner will think of you practicing in the 182 and
taking your check ride in the 172, why would they care? You will be
judged based on your performance during the check ride. If you perform
to standards (or better), you'll pass.
Sounds like a great opportunity! I wish I knew someone that could have
made such a deal available to me during my training.
Will you be flying the 182 after you get your certificate? If so, then
the more "practice" time you get, the better.
Best of luck!
--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Once I have my license I will be doing lots of flying in the 182.
Being that close to my father we can start doing things like going to
fly-ins around the country as travel is so much easier with two pilots
on a trip than one.

[Dudley Henriques]

Post by es330td
Midway through my Private I moved to another state and have
transferred to a new CFI & flight school. The only school in my area
has two planes (a Mustang and a C172) and with several students
availability is questionable at times, especially for the 172.  All my
training thus far has been in C172's.  My father who lives about 80 nm
away has a C182 he is offering to make available to me so that I will
have access to a plane whenever I need to finish my license and all I
have to pay for is oil and gas. He has discussed this with his
insurance company.  I realize that the 182 is High Performance but my
bigger concern is its avionics.  The plane has (to me) a staggering
amount of avionics as it is IFR and WAAS equipped.  As I have flown
with him many times in this plane I am not worried about learning the
prop controls; I am worried about what a checkride would be like in
this plane.  I have heard that an examiner can ask about anything in
the examination plane so between the 430, 496, strike finder and
traffic radar I am quite intimidated by the prospect of being
questioned about their usage on a checkride.  I realize that I could
do all my solo work in the 182 and then do the checkride in the
school's 172 as well though I don't know what the examiner would think
about me doing all my practice in a different plane than my checkride
plane.
Can I get some opinions from some CFI's on these options?

The bottom line on this is that you can indeed do your training in the
182 and indeed the examiner can and most likely will ask you about the
avionics in the airplane during your check ride.
Keep in mind that there are really only two things in play here that
you have to consider.
First, the 182, although technically a high performance airplane,
isn't all that difficult to master. It's heavier, has more power, and
it has a constant speed prop.
I've taken several students through their training program in high
performnce singles. You'll simply spend a bit more time dealing with
the various systems in the 182 and a lot of that can be done in the
POH between flights. The actual flying isn't all that much more
complicated than a 172. Once you have the engine controls down pat and
learn that trim is there to be used, you'll be just fine in a 182.

The second thing to remember is that although the 182 might be loaded
with avionics, the only avionics you will be REQUIRED to use on a
check ride for your PPL are the same ones you would be using in the
172. In other words, the avionics you need to now how to use VFR as a
Private Pilot.
So don't worry. If you have access to a nice 182 with equipment, count
your blessings and thank the people loaning it to you.
Just hit the books on the systems in the airplane and GO FLY!
Dudley Henriques
Retired CFI

[Robert M. Gary]

Post by Dudley Henriques
The second thing to remember is that although the 182 might be loaded
with avionics, the only avionics you will be REQUIRED to use on a
check ride for your PPL are the same ones you would be using in the
172. In other words, the avionics you need to now how to use VFR as a
Private Pilot.
So don't worry. If you have access to a nice 182 with equipment, count
your blessings and thank the people loaning it to you.
Just hit the books on the systems in the airplane and GO FLY!
Dudley Henriques
Retired CFI-

I don't believe that is true. Anything in the aircraft is fair game
for the examiner to test the applicant on. However, its common to mark
something as "inop" to avoid that situation.

-Robert, CFII

[Dudley Henriques]

Post by Robert M. Gary

Post by Dudley Henriques
The second thing to remember is that although the 182 might be loaded
with avionics, the only avionics you will be REQUIRED to use on a
check ride for your PPL are the same ones you would be using in the
172. In other words, the avionics you need to now how to use VFR as a
Private Pilot.
So don't worry. If you have access to a nice 182 with equipment, count
your blessings and thank the people loaning it to you.
Just hit the books on the systems in the airplane and GO FLY!
Dudley Henriques
Retired CFI-

I don't believe that is true. Anything in the aircraft is fair game
for the examiner to test the applicant on. However, its common to mark
something as "inop" to avoid that situation.
-Robert, CFII

Been awhile but I believe the examiner can only consider as "fair
game" instruments and avionics in the aircraft that are pertinent to
the flight test being taken. For example, If the VOR head has a glide
slope, the applicant I don't believe is required at the discretion of
the examiner giving a Private Flight test to have the applicant
perform an ILS to demonstrate proficiency with that part of the
instrument head.
The applicant however should be prepared to demonstrate proficiency
using the VOR, as that IS required for the PPL flight test.
I'd have to dig into the Flight Test Standards for a totally accurate
answer but I believe this is right, or at least it USED to be right
anyway :-)
DH

[Justin Tyme]

Post by Dudley Henriques
I'd have to dig into the Flight Test Standards for a totally
accurate answer but I believe this is right, or at least it USED
to be right anyway :-)

Doesn't that depend on which FSDO is in your district? Some FSDOs have
been known for making up their own rules. :-(

--

[Dudley Henriques]

Post by Dudley Henriques
I'd have to dig into the Flight Test Standards for a totally
accurate answer but I believe this is right, or at least it USED
to be right anyway :-)

Doesn't that depend on which FSDO is in your district?  Some FSDOs have
been known for making up their own rules.  :-(
--

You're right. I've had examiners get a bit "creative" with a flight
test student involving something installed on the airplane. The best
thing to do from the recommending instructor's viewpoint when sending
up a student in an aircraft carrying equipment in excess of the flight
test being taken is for the CFI to talk with the examiner before
scheduling the test. This has always worked for me, but Bob Gary's
right. It can be a sticky wicket with the wrong examiner.
Common sense usually serves the instructor well in these cases.
-DH

[es330td]

Post by Robert M. Gary

Post by Dudley Henriques
The second thing to remember is that although the 182 might be loaded
with avionics, the only avionics you will be REQUIRED to use on a
check ride for your PPL are the same ones you would be using in the
172. In other words, the avionics you need to now how to use VFR as a
Private Pilot.
So don't worry. If you have access to a nice 182 with equipment, count
your blessings and thank the people loaning it to you.
Just hit the books on the systems in the airplane and GO FLY!
Dudley Henriques
Retired CFI-

I don't believe that is true. Anything in the aircraft is fair game
for the examiner to test the applicant on. However, its common to mark
something as "inop" to avoid that situation.
-Robert, CFII

The primary COM/VOR unit is a Garmin 430 so I am not clear how I mark
it as inop and still fly the airplane. The 496 mounts on the yoke so
that is easy to not use. The 430 is another matter altogether. I
suppose I could use only the COM2 but doing two radio VOR navigation
will be impossible.