When is altitude restriction lifted?

[Mxsmanic]

Inbound to a Class B airport and inside the Bravo, I'm instructed to maintain
VFR at 4500, head for the field, and expect to overfly the field and join left
traffic for 25L. At what point is the altitude restriction lifted so that I
can descend to pattern altitude?

[Andy Hawkins]

Post by Mxsmanic
Inbound to a Class B airport and inside the Bravo, I'm instructed to maintain
VFR at 4500, head for the field, and expect to overfly the field and join left
traffic for 25L. At what point is the altitude restriction lifted so that I
can descend to pattern altitude?

I'd say not until you're explicitly told it's lifted. You've only been told
to *expect* to overfly the field and join left traffic, not to actually do
it.

Andy

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Andy Hawkins
I'd say not until you're explicitly told it's lifted. You've only been told
to *expect* to overfly the field and join left traffic, not to actually do
it.

I'm confused over what the actual sequence of instructions would be. If I'm
IFR, an approach clearance cancels altitude restrictions, as does a landing
clearance. But being directed into the pattern isn't a clearance. So would
"MAKE LEFT TRAFFIC" after "MAINTAIN VFR AT 4500" cancel the restriction to
4500 and allow me to descend?

The ATC order isn't clear on this, either, or I haven't been able to find
anything specific. I hear "AT OR BELOW 4500" much more than "AT 4500," so
perhaps the latter is in itself an aberration.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Mxsmanic
Inbound to a Class B airport and inside the Bravo, I'm instructed to maintain
VFR at 4500, head for the field, and expect to overfly the field and join left
traffic for 25L.  At what point is the altitude restriction lifted so that I
can descend to pattern altitude?

You are not in Class B, you are sitting at your computer on MSFS.

Now that is behind us on what actually is happening, do what the real
world pilot does. LOOK IT UP IN FARS. The answer can be found there.

[Alpha Propellerhead]

Inbound to a Class B airport and inside the Bravo, I'm instructed to maintain VFR at 4500, head for the field, and expect to overfly the field and join left
traffic for 25L.  At what point is the altitude restriction lifted so that I can descend to pattern altitude?

"Expect" in this case means they'll most likely contact you before you
get there, but if you lose communication with them in the meantime,
you both know what you're "expected" to do next. The instruction is to
maintain 4500 so stay there in the meantime. If you can't maintain VFR
there, tell them you're unable in time to adjust.

If you're midfield and haven't heard from them yet, just report your
position and as for further instruction. They'll either clear you to
descend or hand you off, but if they don't, fly the 25L pattern at
4500, check your radios, contact ATC and look for light signals from
the tower. If nothing still, which has probably never happened, you
would remain in the circuit, squawk lost comm and descend to pattern
altitude with extreme vigilance for other traffic.

At that point, you'd have to stay in the pattern because until you
receive clearance or declare an emergency you are not cleared to
land.

-chris
CFI

[Mike Adams]

Post by Mxsmanic
Inbound to a Class B airport and inside the Bravo, I'm instructed to
main

tain VFR at 4500, head for the field, and expect to overfly the field
and join left

Post by Mxsmanic
traffic for 25L.  At what point is the altitude restriction lifted so
t

hat I can descend to pattern altitude?
"Expect" in this case means they'll most likely contact you before you
get there, but if you lose communication with them in the meantime,
you both know what you're "expected" to do next. The instruction is to
maintain 4500 so stay there in the meantime. If you can't maintain VFR
there, tell them you're unable in time to adjust.
If you're midfield and haven't heard from them yet, just report your
position and as for further instruction. They'll either clear you to
descend or hand you off, but if they don't, fly the 25L pattern at
4500, check your radios, contact ATC and look for light signals from
the tower. If nothing still, which has probably never happened, you
would remain in the circuit, squawk lost comm and descend to pattern
altitude with extreme vigilance for other traffic.
At that point, you'd have to stay in the pattern because until you
receive clearance or declare an emergency you are not cleared to
land.
-chris
CFI

Two questions: Are you IFR or VFR? and are you talking to the Approach
controller or Tower? It sounds like you're VFR and talking to the
approach controller. In this case, I would say the most likely scenario
is they hand you off to the tower, who deletes the restriction, tells
you to enter the pattern and clears you to land. In either case, I
wouldn't descend until given that instruction, or in the IFR case,
cleared for an approach (most likely visual in this case).

Mike

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Mike Adams
Two questions: Are you IFR or VFR? and are you talking to the Approach
controller or Tower?

VFR talking to Approach.

Post by Mike Adams
It sounds like you're VFR and talking to the
approach controller. In this case, I would say the most likely scenario
is they hand you off to the tower, who deletes the restriction, tells
you to enter the pattern and clears you to land.

Okay, so I can expect the tower to explicitly say "cancel altitude
restriction" or the equivalent? That is, just telling me to enter the pattern
doesn't automatically lift the restriction?

[Mike Adams]

Post by Mxsmanic
Okay, so I can expect the tower to explicitly say "cancel altitude
restriction" or the equivalent? That is, just telling me to enter the
pattern doesn't automatically lift the restriction?

Yes, it's been my experience that they will tell you. It's also possible
that the approach controller gave you the restriction and you could then be
handed off to the tower, and the tower controller might not know about it.
So, if not stated explicitly, I would ask for clarification.

Mike

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Mike Adams
Yes, it's been my experience that they will tell you. It's also possible
that the approach controller gave you the restriction and you could then be
handed off to the tower, and the tower controller might not know about it.
So, if not stated explicitly, I would ask for clarification.

OK, thanks.