Trim settings the same for takeoff and landing?

[Mxsmanic]

Lately I have made a more stringent attempt to trim the aircraft on approach
for landing, and I note that I often end up with a trim setting that is right
inside the takeoff trim setting. Is this a coincidence, or something that is
to be expected?

[Dave Doe]

Post by Mxsmanic
Lately I have made a more stringent attempt to trim the aircraft on approach
for landing, and I note that I often end up with a trim setting that is right
inside the takeoff trim setting. Is this a coincidence, or something that is
to be expected?

So many variables. *Plane* for starters!

[a***@gmail.com]

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same. He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight.... :-)))

One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

[Mxyzptlk]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 06:02:06 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:

My father was the architect for the Entebbe raid. I love Israel.
Excuse me? Fuck you in your non-Jew nose, Entebbe was NOT a
fiasco!

[george]

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by george
I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactomundo. Heck, I lean forward or lean back and find myself having
to adjust trim. You just know to adjust it, not look down and set at
a predetermine setting and expect it to be the same setting on
landing.

Guess that's missed in the realism setting of 10 in MSFS LOL

[Mxyzptlk]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 15:21:50 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:

http://tinyurl.com/5gt7

[Jon Woellhaf]

Several times, while flying from Denver to Salt Lake (direct) in my 182, the
air was so smooth that there was no sensation of movement at all, if I
closed my eyes, and I could lazily climb or descend at 100 to 200 fpm just
by leaning forward or back in my seat.

At those times, it was a lot like flying a simulator, except MUCH more
stable and with way better graphics!

Jon

Post by george
I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactomundo. Heck, I lean forward or lean back and find myself having
to adjust trim. You just know to adjust it, not look down and set at
a predetermine setting and expect it to be the same setting on
landing.

Guess that's missed in the realism setting of 10 in MSFS LOL

[Invisible dog]

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

---
Mark

[Dave Doe]

In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?

[Mark]

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)

Mark

[a]

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)? In reality it should configure the
airplane at a reasonable attitude for climb at full throttle with
airspeed somewhere around best angle of climb. I can tell you for
sure in a Mooney if the trim is correct for rotation it is soon going
to be adjusted as airspeed moves up.

[Ari]

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

*lol*

Because it's Mark(ie) the bi-polar "pilot".

[Mark]

*lol*
Because it's.

[Mark]

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Because I do what my flight instructor tells me, as per
the check list, and we don't set trim until I've achieved
significant altitude.

Post by a
In reality it should configure the
airplane at a reasonable attitude for climb at full throttle with
airspeed somewhere around best angle of climb.

Which is what we're doing.

Post by a
I can tell you for
sure in a Mooney if the trim is correct for rotation it is soon going
to be adjusted as airspeed moves up.

Which is exactly what I do, readjust the trim to maintain
straight and level at my desired cruising speed.

---
Mark

[Mark]

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.

---
Mark

[a]

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

Oh really? It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.

[Mark]

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

Oh really?  It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer. No one around tonight, I
already called. One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional. And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army. Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.

---
Mark

[Ari]

Post by Mark

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

Oh really?  It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer. No one around tonight, I
already called. One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional. And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army. Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.
---
Mark

Which one was trained in training mental health casenutz...like you,
Mark(ie), that's the guy we want to shoot!

[a]

Post by Mark

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

Oh really?  It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer.  No one around tonight, I
already called.  One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional.  And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army.  Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.
---
Mark

I have not flown a 152 or 172 in some time. My training was, and
practice in BFRs is, to use the trim to negate yoke pressure and that
is what I do in the Mooney and among my friends at least the way they
fly their complex singles. Your instructors may do it differently --
if so, I'd encourage you to find different CFIs Take off and climb
speeds in these airplanes is markedly different than climb speeds, and
I don't want to fly a XC holding yoke pressure or adjusting airspeed
rather than trim. Moreover I descend most often at cruise speed, and
would rather trim for that attitude than to spend 20 minutes coming
down at 500 fpm from 11,000 feet holding forward pressure. You may
choose to fly differently. If you're being taught differently see my
'find different' comment above. Start with a badly out of trim
airplane and practice some under-the-hood recovery from unusual
attitude stuff. It's simply adding difficulty.

The Mooney, by the way, does not have trim tabs but can be trimmed.
Other complex singles do have tabs. Set the trim on one for takeoff
then look at the tab. You will likely find it out of trail. If you
bother landing one without adjusting trim from cruise (I don;t know
why you'd bother doing this, but never the less) unless the CG is
close to limits you'll find it close to in trail position if the
airplane is well rigged.

I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely. Others may have
different techniques to trimming an airplane -- mine is not broken, so
I choose not to change it, most especially when the authority quoted
is based on someone's alleged 152/172 experience.

[Ari]

Mark, I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely.

Oooh, that was painful.

*lol*

[Mark]

Post by Ari

Mark, I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely.

Oooh, that was painful.

Rudeness by someone towards me in no way
lessens who I am, but rather brings them down.

But why am I telling you? You're a
Goddamn hopeless, depraved lunatic hated
across the world.

Ok. Carry on.

---
Mark

[Ari]

Post by Mark

Post by Ari

Mark, I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely.

Oooh, that was painful.

Rudeness by someone towards me in no way
lessens who I am, but rather brings them down.

blah blah blah etc

Post by Mark
But why am I telling you?

Because you're a self-absorbed fukknutzoid who can't control himself.

Post by Mark
Ok. Carry on.

Roger!

[Mark]

Post by Ari

Post by Mark

Post by Ari

Mark, I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely.

Oooh, that was painful.

Rudeness by someone towards me in no way
lessens who I am, but rather brings them down.

blah blah blah etc

Post by Mark
But why am I telling you?  

Because I'm a self-absorbed fukknutzoid who can't control myself.

Post by Mark
Ok. Carry on.

Roger!
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

While I believe there is an Ari Daniel Silverstein in
Florida, you ain't him, and so your pseudo
bravado across the internet is only possible because
you're a coward hiding behind a keyboard.

An authentic chickenshit you are.

With no compunction to being a cowardly spammer.
Basically, very childlike, and semi-illiterate.

---
Mark

[Ari]

Post by Mark

Post by Ari

Post by Mark

Post by Ari

Mark, I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely.

Oooh, that was painful.

Rudeness by someone towards me in no way
lessens who I am, but rather brings them down.

blah blah blah etc

Post by Mark
But why am I telling you?  

Because I'm a self-absorbed fukknutzoid who can't control myself.

Post by Mark
Ok. Carry on.

Roger!
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

While I believe there is an Ari Daniel Silverstein in
Florida, you ain't him, and so your pseudo
bravado across the internet is only possible because
you're a coward hiding behind a keyboard.

Where exactly is it you live?

What is your last name?

Speaking of cowards....*LOL LOL LOL*

Post by Mark
An authentic chickenshit you are.

blah blah fukknutzois bullshit...as usual.

Post by Mark
With no compunction to being a cowardly spammer.
Basically, very childlike, and semi-illiterate.

Where exactly is it you live?

What is your last name?

Speaking of cowards....*LOL LOL LOL*

[Mark]

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

Oh really?  It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer.  No one around tonight, I
already called.  One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional.  And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army.  Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.
---
Mark

I have not flown a 152 or 172 in some time. My training was, and
practice in BFRs is,  to use the trim to negate yoke pressure and that
is what I do in the Mooney and among my friends at least the way they
fly their complex singles. Your instructors may do it differently --
if so, I'd encourage you to find different CFIs Take off and climb
speeds in these airplanes is markedly different than climb speeds, and
I don't want to fly a XC holding yoke pressure or adjusting airspeed
rather than trim. Moreover I descend most often at cruise speed, and
would rather trim for that attitude than to spend 20 minutes coming
down at 500 fpm from 11,000 feet holding forward pressure. You may
choose to fly differently. If you're being taught differently see my
'find different' comment above.  Start with a badly out of trim
airplane and practice some under-the-hood recovery from unusual
attitude stuff. It's simply adding difficulty.
The Mooney, by the way, does not have trim tabs but can be trimmed.
Other complex singles do have tabs. Set the trim on one for takeoff
then look at the tab. You will likely find it out of trail. If you
bother landing one without adjusting trim from cruise (I don;t know
why you'd bother doing this, but never the less) unless the CG is
close to limits you'll find it close to in trail position if the
airplane is well rigged.
I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely. Others may have
different techniques to trimming an airplane -- mine is not broken, so
I choose not to change it, most especially when the authority quoted
is based on someone's alleged 152/172 experience.

That's all fine and well. Myself, I don't give out avation advice as
I'm a novice. But I certainly can answer a direct question, that
being, where do I set trim at take-off. I was asked, and I answered.
Shortly after take-off though, obviously we set trim to alleviate
yoke pressure and achieve optimum stability.

By the way, you're being a little condescending. You know,
technically, your claim to having a mooney and being a pilot
is no less alleged than anything I say either. Don't get me
wrong. Personally I believe you, and you sound credible so
I'll respect you as long as you respect me.

I think it's interesting that you have a high performance plane.
Myself, I'd be satisfied with something a cut above a
Cessna, preferably a low wing light sport such as the
Arion lightning or the MySky MS-1.

---
Mark

[a]

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

Oh really?  It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I tell ya what. Rather than me theorizing on why we do
what we do at the academy, I'll call one of my instructors
for a more definitive answer.  No one around tonight, I
already called.  One is rated for jets, a former airline
professional.  And my other one also flys Chinook
helicopters for the Army.  Not having the checklist in
hand I'm really commenting from memory.
---
Mark

I have not flown a 152 or 172 in some time. My training was, and
practice in BFRs is,  to use the trim to negate yoke pressure and that
is what I do in the Mooney and among my friends at least the way they
fly their complex singles. Your instructors may do it differently --
if so, I'd encourage you to find different CFIs Take off and climb
speeds in these airplanes is markedly different than climb speeds, and
I don't want to fly a XC holding yoke pressure or adjusting airspeed
rather than trim. Moreover I descend most often at cruise speed, and
would rather trim for that attitude than to spend 20 minutes coming
down at 500 fpm from 11,000 feet holding forward pressure. You may
choose to fly differently. If you're being taught differently see my
'find different' comment above.  Start with a badly out of trim
airplane and practice some under-the-hood recovery from unusual
attitude stuff. It's simply adding difficulty.
The Mooney, by the way, does not have trim tabs but can be trimmed.
Other complex singles do have tabs. Set the trim on one for takeoff
then look at the tab. You will likely find it out of trail. If you
bother landing one without adjusting trim from cruise (I don;t know
why you'd bother doing this, but never the less) unless the CG is
close to limits you'll find it close to in trail position if the
airplane is well rigged.
I am a real pilot with a real airplane talking about my approach to
the real practice of committing aviation safely. Others may have
different techniques to trimming an airplane -- mine is not broken, so
I choose not to change it, most especially when the authority quoted
is based on someone's alleged 152/172 experience.

That's all fine and well. Myself, I don't give out avation advice as
I'm a novice. But I certainly can answer a direct question, that
being, where do I set trim at take-off. I was asked, and I answered.
Shortly after take-off though, obviously we set trim to alleviate
yoke pressure and achieve optimum stability.
By the way, you're being a little condescending. You know,
technically, your claim to having a mooney and being a pilot
is no less alleged than anything I say either. Don't get me
wrong. Personally I believe you, and you sound credible so
I'll respect you as long as you respect me.
I think it's interesting that you have a high performance plane.
Myself, I'd be satisfied with something a cut above a
Cessna, preferably a low wing light sport such as the
Arion lightning or the MySky MS-1.
---
Mark

My Mooney is a business tool: it's an effective way to visit customers
and clients and offers better door to door time than commercial
carriers for most applications up to about 800 or a 1000 miles,
although I often use it on longer trips for the pleasure of flying. As
such I depend on IFR most of the time, and find weather related
cancellations happening about 8% of the time (icing, embedded
thunderstorms are deal busters forecasted wx below minimums are
rare). Anything less than a complex single would not fit my airplane's
mission and my board of directors agrees with me that the evidence is
a self piloted light twin would not be much, if at all, safer.

I have learned some useful things in this group, and read a huge
amount of crap from pseudo experts. In general if I think someone is
wrong I will tell them so. Whether they believe me is up to them. I
think your trimming ideas are in error and told you why, You can
accept that or not. In any event, a badly or incorrectly trimmed
airplane is a pain in the ass to fly, but in my view costs only
airspeed and increased difficulty in unusual attitude recoveries but
is otherwise not a safety issue.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I think your trimming ideas are in error and told you why, You can
accept that or not. In any event, a badly or incorrectly trimmed
airplane is a pain in the ass to fly, but in my view costs only
airspeed and increased difficulty in unusual attitude recoveries but
is otherwise not a safety issue.

You are wasting your key strokes. Particular individuals are convinced that
MSFS is "realistic" and thus, what they observe about trim in thier video
game must translate to real life.

In a PC simulator, when you change the trim, it changes the mapping between
the stick position and the simulated elevator position as opposed to real
life where the trim changes the forces on the stick. In the game, when you
trim, you MOVE the stick (or yoke) back to the "center" position. In real
life, when you change the trim, you DON"T MOVE the stick (or yoke). Untill
these people recognize these simple, basic facts about the hardware
differences, they will never understand how trim works.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
In a PC simulator, when you change the trim, it changes the mapping between
the stick position and the simulated elevator position as opposed to real
life where the trim changes the forces on the stick. In the game, when you
trim, you MOVE the stick (or yoke) back to the "center" position. In real
life, when you change the trim, you DON"T MOVE the stick (or yoke). Untill
these people recognize these simple, basic facts about the hardware
differences, they will never understand how trim works.

This difference is trivially small, much smaller than, say, the difference
between a yoke and a sidestick, which is already too small to worry about.

[Mike Ash]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
In a PC simulator, when you change the trim, it changes the mapping between
the stick position and the simulated elevator position as opposed to real
life where the trim changes the forces on the stick. In the game, when you
trim, you MOVE the stick (or yoke) back to the "center" position. In real
life, when you change the trim, you DON"T MOVE the stick (or yoke). Untill
these people recognize these simple, basic facts about the hardware
differences, they will never understand how trim works.

This difference is trivially small, much smaller than, say, the difference
between a yoke and a sidestick, which is already too small to worry about.

Guy who only flies simulators says the difference is trivially small.

People who have flown both say the difference is significant.

Oh dear, which one shall I believe.

[george]

Post by Mike Ash

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
In a PC simulator, when you change the trim, it changes the mapping between
the stick position and the simulated elevator position as opposed to real
life where the trim changes the forces on the stick. In the game, when you
trim, you MOVE the stick (or yoke) back to the "center" position. In real
life, when you change the trim, you DON"T MOVE the stick (or yoke).  Untill
these people recognize these simple, basic facts about the hardware
differences, they will never understand how trim works.

This difference is trivially small, much smaller than, say, the difference
between a yoke and a sidestick, which is already too small to worry about.

Guy who only flies simulators says the difference is trivially small.
People who have flown both say the difference is significant.
Oh dear, which one shall I believe.

:-)
We had a Victor115 where I used to fly.
The elevator trim was a lever you moved up and down a serrated slot.
So you either had to hold stick forward or stick back.
It bought home to me the ability of those pioneers who flew aircraft
without trim

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Mike Ash
Guy who only flies simulators says the difference is trivially small.

People who have issues with self-esteem or difficulty learning say it is
arbitrarily large.

Post by Mike Ash
People who have flown both say the difference is significant.

Not the ones I've talked to. Nor would that be coherent with more general
principles of simulation and operation of vehicles.

How long does it take you to get used to the steering or brakes when you start
driving a different car?

[Jim Logajan]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Mike Ash
People who have flown both say the difference is significant.

Not the ones I've talked to.

Since you claim to already "talk to" people whose opinion you consider more
reliable on trim settings than anyone on this newsgroup, there was no
rational reason for you to start this thread with:

"Lately I have made a more stringent attempt to trim the aircraft on
approach for landing, and I note that I often end up with a trim setting
that is right inside the takeoff trim setting. Is this a coincidence, or
something that is to be expected?"

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Jim Logajan
Since you claim to already "talk to" people whose opinion you consider more
reliable on trim settings than anyone on this newsgroup, there was no
"Lately I have made a more stringent attempt to trim the aircraft on
approach for landing, and I note that I often end up with a trim setting
that is right inside the takeoff trim setting. Is this a coincidence, or
something that is to be expected?"

Yes, there was a rational reason. The pilots I've talked to in real life are
not readily reachable in cyberspace, particularly as a group, so it's easier
to ask the question in venues where at least a few useful replies might
theoretically be had. There are lots of poseurs in these newsgroups, of
course, but I know whom to take seriously and whom to dismiss, and serious
answers with good intentions are easy to distinguish from personal attacks and
replies that try to look smart but convey no real information.

[Mike Ash]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Mike Ash
Guy who only flies simulators says the difference is trivially small.

People who have issues with self-esteem or difficulty learning say it is
arbitrarily large.

So which one do you think I have, self-esteem issues or difficulty
learning?

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Mike Ash
People who have flown both say the difference is significant.

Not the ones I've talked to. Nor would that be coherent with more general
principles of simulation and operation of vehicles.

Do you not consider Usenet to count as "talking", or do you doubt that
we've flown both?

[Jim Logajan]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
In a PC simulator, when you change the trim, it changes the mapping
between the stick position and the simulated elevator position as
opposed to real life where the trim changes the forces on the stick.
In the game, when you trim, you MOVE the stick (or yoke) back to the
"center" position. In real life, when you change the trim, you DON"T
MOVE the stick (or yoke). Untill these people recognize these
simple, basic facts about the hardware differences, they will never
understand how trim works.

This difference is trivially small, much smaller than, say, the
difference between a yoke and a sidestick, which is already too small
to worry about.

Since responses that do not confirm your preset world view are to be
trivialized, there is absolutely nothing of constructive value accomplished
by your queries.

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Jim Logajan
Since responses that do not confirm your preset world view are to be
trivialized, there is absolutely nothing of constructive value accomplished
by your queries.

That is for me to determine, not you.

[Dave Doe]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Jim Logajan
Since responses that do not confirm your preset world view are to be
trivialized, there is absolutely nothing of constructive value accomplished
by your queries.

That is for me to determine, not you.

Happy landings! - LOL

So uh... correct answers have been supplied by several posters. Just
wondering what you've determined?

[Mxsmanic]

Post by Dave Doe
So uh... correct answers have been supplied by several posters.

I have seen several good answers, yes. The rest went into the bit bucket, as
usual.

[Dave Doe]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Dave Doe
So uh... correct answers have been supplied by several posters.

I have seen several good answers, yes. The rest went into the bit bucket, as
usual.

You avoided my question. What did you determine?

[a]

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Dave Doe
So uh... correct answers have been supplied by several posters.

I have seen several good answers, yes. The rest went into the bit bucket, as
usual.

You avoided my question.  What did you determine?
--
Duncan.

The metric to use is probably not Mx's opinion, but your own. If you
read something you deem useful and might incorporate in your own
flying it's useful, else, it's not. I am a moderately high time pilot
and have found some ideas in this newsgroup good reminders, or in
some cases things I had not considered and now use and I suspect
others have as well.

Student pilots would be well advised to not read this newsgroup, or to
filter the ideas they consider worthwhile through their CFIs

[Ari]

Post by a
Student pilots would be well advised to not read this newsgroup, or to
filter the ideas they consider worthwhile through their CFIs

(a)men to that.

[Dave Doe]

In article <59ae9423-46ab-43fd-816b-a81ff938e8e1
@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com>, ***@gmail.com says...

Post by a

Post by Mxsmanic

Post by Dave Doe
So uh... correct answers have been supplied by several posters.

I have seen several good answers, yes. The rest went into the bit bucket, as
usual.

You avoided my question.  What did you determine?
--
Duncan.

The metric to use is probably not Mx's opinion, but your own. If you
read something you deem useful and might incorporate in your own
flying it's useful, else, it's not. I am a moderately high time pilot
and have found some ideas in this newsgroup good reminders, or in
some cases things I had not considered and now use and I suspect
others have as well.
Student pilots would be well advised to not read this newsgroup, or to
filter the ideas they consider worthwhile through their CFIs

I'm not a student pilot - I was back in 1986. I want to know what MX's
deluded mind has determined.

[george]

I'm not a student pilot - I was back in 1986.  I want to know what MX's
deluded mind has determined.

My student pilot days were back in 1968. (partial palindrome)
And there's no way mixedup is going to make sense to any-one

[Dave Doe]

In article <a51907e1-9ebc-4fa6-a224-3fd86dd01299
@c1g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, ***@hnpl.net says...

Post by george

I'm not a student pilot - I was back in 1986.  I want to know what MX's
deluded mind has determined.

My student pilot days were back in 1968. (partial palindrome)
And there's no way mixedup is going to make sense to any-one

I think we're all agreed on that :)

[Mark]

Post by george

I'm not a student pilot - I was back in 1986.  I want to know what MX's
deluded mind has determined.

My student pilot days were back in 1968. (partial palindrome)
And there's no way mixedup is going to make sense to any-one

Well, I'm still a student pilot no matter how old I get,
and probably will continue to be until I cannot advance
any further. That being said, I get my facts from such
sources as FAA-H-8083-3A and from instructors in
real life who fly jets or are in the military and can land
a helicopter in a dust storm while taking fire.

Anyone who has the where-with-all to continue their
avation education will certainly rely on FARs and
AIM's to gain the final authority. It would be nice to
see this group continue as a casual community of
pilots who can relate their experiences, past and
current to offer ancedotal insight. People who play
with simulators might gather information about
those devices in a forum for that purpose. As this
is an unmoderated group, unfortunately there will
always be unstable people who pop in and affix
themselves as trolls by forging identities.

That's usenet.

---
Mark

[Ari]

As this is an unmoderated group, unfortunately there will
always be unstable people like me.

*Cue the Mark(ie) Bio!!!*

Updated on 27/Apr/2010 15:55

*!!Over 180 Usenet Groups and nearing 7,000 posts!!*

http://tinyurl.com/ygyak4m - ***@yahoo.com aka Marcus
Aurelius aka Mark(ie)!!

*Retired aka lazy, bored and too stupid to do shit anymore* - "I've
since moved on to guitars, turbojets, alternative energy, and Victory
gardens."~sci.physics

*Quotes From Mark(ie)'s "Tiger Would" Sock Puppet*: Better known as
***@yahoo.com aka Marcus Aurelius aka Mark(ie)!!

*First, Mark(ie)) The Ever-Idiot Outs Himself!* -
http://tinyurl.com/yhc5tfr or
<http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.kibology/msg/4290367955e70022?hl=en&dmode=source>


- I'm not a pseudo-anonymous poster. I'm an actual anonymous poster.
I'm not "Mark" even though our Google Accounts are the same." "I know
what it is to draw the attention of educators, and be selected for
I.Q. testing and advanced placement". "History's greatest religious
leaders? Only Jesus stands out. Muhammed was a warlord". "I find most
psychiatrists to be unbalanced, often alcoholics and pathological
introverts". "I don't have a degree in physics, so maybe if I did
then this "genius" thing which I've been assigned might be put to
better use on this subject.I have a gift for looking past the obvious
and discussing the abstract". "I'm 54 years old and am well aware of
what schizophrenia is, and it's various manifestations apart from
other psychological abberations". ~sci.philosophy.tech

*"Tiger's" Ultra-Heavy Drug Use* - "I've taken LSD hundreds of times
and walked in an alternate reality yet always returned to my normal
boring self. I've been trying to tie God and Science together all my
life". "You can always order your medicine over the internet from
third world countries."~ sci.philosophy.tech

*"Tiger (Mark(ie) Would" Know Languages Too!* - "In Russian, bear
means honey-eater." ~sci.lang

*Mark(ie) "Tiger" on Relativism* - "This is relativism distilled to
it's pure essence is like a sun-baked dog turd. ~alt.philosophy

*"Tiger" Mark(ie) Hides/Trolls and Spreads His Own Style Of Racism* -
"I doubt the dogs dislike for negros was based on a previous
experience. Most dogs don't like black people."
~alt.religion.kibology

*Obese* - "I have my own weight issues...5'3", 375 lbs."
~misc.news.internet.discuss

*Batman-like Security Expert w/ Advanced DogoVideo* - And as to
Federal employees...no one can get within a quarter mile of me
without a warrant. I'm very hard to access and my critter cameras
record everything that happens around here." -misc.writing

*Troll/Forger* - Admitted ~rec.aviation.piloting
http://tinyurl.com/yhjqja6

*Whose Deeply In Love With Himself* - "I hung a new big mirror in the
bathroom the other day. Then I hung another mirror behind me on the
opposite wall. Now I can't stop standing in between and looking down
my infinite replication tunnel". ~misc.writing

*Multi-National Saviour* - "I saved a lot of people of many different
ethnicities." ~misc.writing

*Yet A Crazed Muslim Slaughtering Slobfukker* - Three thousand people
were minding their own business. Women, children, friendly Americans.
Then the WORLD TRADE CENTER towers crashed and slammed to the ground
in a FIRE of MURDER by coward muslims. Now...We're gonna KILL YOU
motherfuckers if it takes 100 years. Because we're AMERICANS. We are
the top dogs of the world. And the muslims are gonna pay one million
times over if we have to kill every fucking one of you. Locked and
loaded, Mark." ~misc.writing

*Who Flounts The Deaths Of Children* - "LOL! That looks like a
"before" picture from the Saddam Hussein playbook. Can you say
collateral damage?" ~misc.writing
Loading Image...


*Philosopher* - "Most people live lives of quiet desperation."
~alt.support.depression.manic "There are some things worse than
death. Which is worse, being born, or dying? Both are natural." "I
think youth is a miserable time, except when you look back on it.
Then it gets all sparklie and rosie. "Is eternal life similar to
"rollover minutes?" ~alt.atheism,alt.support.depression.manic

*A Deity?* - "I think there is a God. I'm pretty sure I'm not him."
~sci.physics.relativity

*Knows Eternity* - I pretty much agree with your assessment in the
first place about the MAGNITUDE of our final eternity, where ever it
is. Pretty much beyond of the scope of most folk's imagination. I
don't have any questions though. ~sci.physics.relativity

*Leads The Perfect Life* - I worried a HELL of lot more when I was 25
than I do today. In fact, I don't worry at all!" ~alt.quotations

*BiPolar Prozac-Drugged FukkNutzoid* - "Now I find that Prozac makes
me a fairly pleasant individual. I take a measly 600mg lithium
however I'm usually pretty "up", but that's more a state I developed
after years of conditioning. In other words, LOL, misery." "Its
really less about how we got this way, and more about who we're going
to become." "A spirochete. Rapidly spreading across the world,
causing people to act bipolar. " ~alt.support.depression.manic

*Yet Lies About Medications* - Fortunately I don't have to take
prescription meds. You know, clean livin', non smoker, non drinker."
~misc.writing

*But Capable Of Self-Diagnosis* - "...intensify other psychiatric
syndromes such as post-traumatic stress disorder, dissociative
disorders, borderline personality, and narcissistic personality
disorders. Sound Familiar? *******Mark of the Forest
~alt.support.depression.manic

*And A Mental Health "Expert"* - "If a beehive is agitated, you'll
have a mess on your hands. You're probably gonna get stung, so call
in the professionals. They dress in white and methodically approach
the hive. Then, they blow smoke up the bees ass, which calms them
down. Now you can handle the situation. This is how mental health
works". *******Mark of the Forest ~alt.support.depression.manic

*Extensive Business Background...Around Pools* - "I've had a long and
extensive career in the lifeguard and swimming pool industry."
~misc.writing

*Yet Claims To Be Uber-Wealthy* - "It's only $500,000 dollars..."
~misc.writing

*Brilliance...In His Own Mind* - "But what makes me a creative
genius.." ~misc.writing

*Founder of Art Academy* - "Nor was it when I founded a school of the
arts in my name..." ~misc.writing

*National Politician and Grand Entrepreneur* - "convincing the
chairman of the bank and head of the Georgia Republican party to fly
to Washington, D.C. and within 3 days bring me a Small Business
Admin. check for 350 thousand dollars." ~misc.writing

*Loved By Celebrities* - "Mark Who Was Invited By Elvis To Graceland"
~signature several newsgroups

*Cuntsman* - "Some cute little brunette named Tammy stole her
boyfriend's car and credit cards and put me up on the 14th floor of
the "Yachtsman" for a week in Myrtle Beach, while spending thousands
by day, and smoking the sheets by night." ~misc.writing

*Zoological Scientific Genius* - You did know that in Junior high
school I memorized the Latin genus of all the snakes in North
America? I was a herpetologist by age 15...

*Teenaged Painter* - ...the same time I began to sell my cubist
paintings. ~rec.aviation.piloting

*Artist Of Wealth and Genius Extraordinaire* - "You can call yourself
a creative genius when you've done what I've done. My walls are
covered with the first run editions of /intricate valuable artwork/.
I have the originals safely stored away too. All these pieces were
commissioned before they were started, and they represent thousands
of dollars in revenue. They were all done by the same artist. Me.
~misc.writing

*Paranormal Animal Communicator* - "The gruff loud voice cried out,
"Mark! Mark! Mark!" over and over. My heart nearly stopped with fear
as the voice reached the back of my feet. Spinning around there it
was! I'd never seen a hair-lipped dog before. He barked again,"Mark!
Mark!". ~alt.religion.kibology

*One Person Anti-Terrorist Usenet Nutzo* - "Look here boyo...if you
or anyone else puts a muslim propaganda post here, I'm gonna put 10
posts against it. If you put ten, I'll put a hundred. If you put a
hundred, I'll put a thousand. So tell your sandnigger friends
they're responsible for the ANTI campaign that follows".
~misc.writing

*Followed By This Mark(ie) Racist "Gem"* - "Muhammed was a camel
fucking warlord that couldn't get along with his own family. Islam is
an ignorant knock-off religion of Christianity. Go build a plane out
of Elmer's glue, and hit 20k ft. Merry Christmas rag head."
~rec.aviation.piloting

*Pilot/Estate Plans* - "Im going to buy a plane"..."I'm training to
be a pilot" (2007-to date, no license).."I'm going to buy an estate
and put in a landing strip"...". "While there were some structural
mishaps on several of the Zodiac light sport planes, I gotta say the
jury is still out for me" (the FAA has grounded this plane months
ago).~rec.aviation.piloting

*Master Builder, Homebuilt Plane Expert and DIYerselfer* - "The more
I learn about building airplanes, the less I want to buy something
sealed in fiberglass, or covered in sheet metal 30 yrs. ago. Mark,
one who wired and plumbed his own house. ~rec.aviation.homebuilt

*But Ready To Order!* - And, a lot of kit planes end up under dusty
tarps unfinished too. It's a jet...the price is about 39k. I'm ready
to order. ~rec.aviation.piloting 28Dec *2008*
http://www.lhaviation.com/site_frame/pages_en/Farnborough2008_en.htm

*Audiophilic Scientist For MIT* - "Doesn't work like that and I know
from my work at MIT on the Jupiter speech synthesis engines."
~alt.christnet.theology

*Favourite Foods* - "Grilled rattler with beans, and a big cold glass
of cougar milk. Cactus thorn for a tooth pick." ~misc.writing

*Writer For The Ages* - "Now as I bid you ado for the day, my advice
is to live in the moment, and find yourself. You might even want to
go look for America. ~alt.quotations

*Mark(ie) Speaks His From The Depths Of His (Black) Heart* -
"Fradulence doesn't work for me. Conscience, my favorite science "
~rec.aviation.homebuilt

*Google Profile And Personal Notes* - "I am a Renaissance Man. I'm
still attempting things people think are impossible. I'm a dichotomy,
shoot em dead brainbell jangler, a soft diamond, a militaristic
saint, and always a very wise fool...with a Giant penis."

Call your attorney. Call the FBI. Hunt me
down. And when you do, be sure and let's
get a comprehensive list and copy of all these
posts which I've supposedly authored. There
are hundreds of them.

He also brags that he's been forging my
identity in "Pilots of America" for 6 months.
If this is true, then they should have those
archived as well. Yes as Mark, blueriverday.
Myself, I've never been there, nor plan to.

So, hunt "me" down, please. Expose my
identity. Not the AT&T "me". That's really
me. I'm talking about the 15,000 groups
he's claimed to have spammed in my name,
and made virtually unuseable. *That" Mark.

He's hiding in this group right now. Just look
at the bottom of your screen at those forgeries.
CALL THE FBI.

*This is a DEATH THREAT.*

*I'm considering KILLING him!*

==
You know what? The United States sends billions to Pakistan
to buy influence. They in turn buy weapons and give them to the
Taliban. We send BILLIONS to Afghanistan, and they embezzle
the money or give it to warlords. We send billions to nations like
Haiti for earthquake aide, but Saudi Arabia or Iran didn't. Then the
Haitians themselves take the orphaned children and enslave them!
They've been doing it for years. Medicare fraud is running rampant
to the tune of billions of dollars, and yet, if you report fraud, (i
have)
they won't act.
Hell, if our country didn't throw so much money down the toilet
we could send a couple of million dollars to every American.
Wouldn't that be better than the ransom we pay to some
psychopath in North Korea?
If you give the average person gobs of money, and they're smart
enough to pay off a house and car, plus their short list of life's
necessities...it will probably help, not hurt.

[Mark]

On Apr 27, 12:09 pm, Ari <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>

Yes, we get it already Ari. You are
an inarticulate clown too immature to engage in
adult dialogue without making a fool of yourself,
so you seek control by spamming usenet with
bozotic nonsense so that in the end...you're
still making a fool of yourself. We see you.

---
Mark

[Help! I Need SomeBooty!]

Post by Mark
<snip>
Yes, we get it already Ari. You are
an inarticulate clown too immature to engage in
adult dialogue without making a fool of yourself,
so you seek control by spamming usenet with
bozotic nonsense so that in the end...you're
still making a fool of yourself. We see you.
---
Mark/Keith/Livingston/Tiger Would/Invisible Dog/
and a slew of other TROLL names

Speaking of BOZOS....

*lol*

[Mark]

Post by Mark
<snip>
Yes, we get it already Ari. You are
an inarticulate clown too immature to engage in
adult dialogue without making a fool of yourself,
so you seek control by spamming usenet with
bozotic nonsense so that in the end...you're
still making a fool of yourself. We see you.
---

Yes, we get it already Ari. You are
an inarticulate clown too immature to engage in
adult dialogue without making a fool of yourself,
so you seek control by spamming usenet with
bozotic nonsense so that in the end...you're
still making a fool of yourself. We see you.


---
Mark

[Mark]

Post by Help! I Need SomeBooty!

Post by Mark
<snip>
Yes, we get it already Ari. You are
an inarticulate clown too immature to engage in
adult dialogue without making a fool of yourself,
so you seek control by spamming usenet with
bozotic nonsense so that in the end...you're
still making a fool of yourself. We see you.
---
Mark/Keith/Livingston/Tiger Would/Invisible Dog/
and a slew of other TROLL names

Speaking of BOZOS....
*lol*

Since you're not the sharpest tool in the shed,
I'll enlighten you why you're a BOZO TROLL and
I'm not.

See, I sometimes use funny names like putting on a
hat, but my e-mail remains the same, and my friends
know it's me. I'm not pretending to be another
poster on usenet whom others readily know. Also,
any inadvertant crossposting is pretty much only
a justified response to your stupidity.

You on the other hand FORGE other people's
established identities, quote snips of their posts
in order to make partial quotes (out of context) link
back to the person whom you are slandering,
or libeling. This you crosspost to 7, 8, or 10
groups at a time, while specifically using vulgar,
stupid language which is part of the real you.

A search of the archives will bear out that this is
pretty much the extent of your interpersonal
skills. In other words, you're actually an asshole.

Where the troll part comes in, is the obsessive
compulsive nature of your sickness. You seek
the reward of recognition, even if people see
you're an idiot. Either way, you're satisfied.
That's the definition of being a troll.

Myself, I have groups where people actually
like me. You know why? Because they know
I like them too.

Therefore, I am justified when I say:

"Yes, we get it already Ari. You are
an inarticulate clown too immature to engage in
adult dialogue without making a fool of yourself,
so you seek control by spamming usenet with
bozotic nonsense so that in the end...you're
still making a fool of yourself. We see you."


---
Mark

[a]

Post by Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

I think your trimming ideas are in error and told you why, You can
accept that or not. In any event, a badly or incorrectly trimmed
airplane is a pain in the ass to fly, but in my view costs only
airspeed and increased difficulty in unusual attitude recoveries but
is otherwise not a safety issue.

You are wasting your key strokes. Particular individuals are convinced that
MSFS is "realistic" and thus, what they observe about trim in thier video
game must translate to real life.
In a PC simulator, when you change the trim, it changes the mapping between
the stick position and the simulated elevator position as opposed to real
life where the trim changes the forces on the stick. In the game, when you
trim, you MOVE the stick (or yoke) back to the "center" position. In real
life, when you change the trim, you DON"T MOVE the stick (or yoke).  Untill
these people recognize these simple, basic facts about the hardware
differences, they will never understand how trim works.
--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

You know, in real life with the trim button on the yoke, I really
could not tell you with any degree of absolute certainty how much I
might move the yoke as the trim changes. If I'm visual I'm holding an
outside reference attitude and adjust trim until the yoke pressure is
neutral. I may actually move the yoke slightly, I can't say I don't.

In the clouds at whatever is the engine settings I've chosen (25 25
for a climb at lower altitudes for example) I use the yoke to control
airspeed with some reference to the AH and altimeter, and adjust trim
until yoke pressures are at zero. Did I at the same time move the
yoke? Probably -- I could care less about yoke position so long as the
attitude is where it should be. I, like perhaps most pilots, am much
more sensitive to yoke pressures than yoke positions and movement.
Even in take off, it never occurred to me to pull the yoke back to a
certain position. Instead, I know about how much back pressure it
takes to get the rotation I want. There's lots of back pressure (and
yoke movement) if it's a soft field and I want to get the wheels out
of the muck early then fly in ground effect. If there's lots of cross
wind gusts we stay on the wheels until we're going much faster, and
just a hint of back pressure will lift the airplane off quickly
without the tires scuffing. Real world flight considerations.


As best I can tell, those are the sensations most sim yokes don't
provide, but for me they are the key to the sensation of flying sel
airplanes.

[Mark]

Post by Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

I think your trimming ideas are in error and told you why, You can
accept that or not. In any event, a badly or incorrectly trimmed
airplane is a pain in the ass to fly, but in my view costs only
airspeed and increased difficulty in unusual attitude recoveries but
is otherwise not a safety issue.

You are wasting your key strokes. Particular individuals are convinced that
MSFS is "realistic" and thus, what they observe about trim in thier video
game must translate to real life.

Never tired a simulator. Video games are for
children. And ari the usenet retard.

----

Post by Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
In a PC simulator, when you change the trim, it changes the mapping between
the stick position and the simulated elevator position as opposed to real
life where the trim changes the forces on the stick. In the game, when you
trim, you MOVE the stick (or yoke) back to the "center" position. In real
life, when you change the trim, you DON"T MOVE the stick (or yoke).  Untill
these people recognize these simple, basic facts about the hardware
differences, they will never understand how trim works.
--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Ari]

Post by Mark
Shortly after take-off though, obviously we set trim to alleviate
yoke pressure

*BWAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*

[Mark]

Post by Ari

Post by Mark
Shortly after take-off though, obviously we set trim to alleviate
yoke pressure

*BWAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*

Please educate the group as to why trim
doesn't alleviate the necessity of having to
constantly hold against the forces which would
prevent straight and level flight.

WHY DOESN'T IT ARI/JEFFREY BLOSS?

Please educate us.

----
Mark

[Jon Woellhaf]

***@gmail.com wrote, "I don't want to fly a XC holding yoke pressure
..."

That reminded me of my first XC decades ago. I was not a pilot and had been
in a light plane only a couple times before, both times in a back seat. I
was in the right-hand seat of brother-in-law's C210, and he let me fly for
several hours after we cleared Denver's TCA heading east to Quincy, IL. I
was surprised at how difficult it was to maintain altitude and how much
forward pressure I had to apply to the yoke. After those several hours, as
we approached Quincy, he took back the controls and immediately grabbed a
couple handfuls of trim. "I can't believe you flew all that way without
trimming!" "What's trim," I replied. I learned a lot on that flight.

Jon

[Mark]

Post by Jon Woellhaf
..."
That reminded me of my first XC decades ago. I was not a pilot and had been
in a light plane only a couple times before, both times in a back seat. I
was in the right-hand seat of brother-in-law's C210, and he let me fly for
several hours after we cleared Denver's TCA heading east to Quincy, IL. I
was surprised at how difficult it was to maintain altitude and how much
forward pressure I had to apply to the yoke. After those several hours, as
we approached Quincy, he took back the controls and immediately grabbed a
couple handfuls of trim. "I can't believe you flew all that way without
trimming!" "What's trim," I replied. I learned a lot on that flight.
Jon

Trimming is only to relieve pressure on the yoke. Since I fly Cessna
15x only, how the fuck would I know since there is no yoke.

??????????

[Mark]

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

Oh really?  It depends on how the airplane is rigged. Most are rigged
for effective flight, not effective take off. You'd give away airspeed
if the trim tabs, assuming you have them, are not in trail at cruise.
I can further assure you in some airplanes, my Mooney for example, you
could look at the horizontal stabilizer elevator combination for a
long time and have no idea of the trim setting.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I did find this with a quick search, which seems to
corroberrate what I've been saying.

----
http://whitts.alioth.net/Pagec1C-152.htm

Flying C-152 Patterns Cessna's way

Last week (9-7-99)I failed a checkride at a certified Cessna Agency in
a C-152. I was surprised to find out that with judicious use of
initial trim setting for takeoff and power, it is Cessna's standard
instructional procedure to negate any use of trim. The C-152 can be
leveled from climb at 80 knots just by a reduction in power to 2200
rpm. No trim necessary. The abeam the numbers reduction of power to
1600 and the first ten degrees of flaps gives an approach speed of 70
knots and power at 1500. No trim necessary. The addition of flaps in
the turns gives sufficient lift/drag to make this one power setting
applicable for the whole descent. The base turn is accompanied by the
second notch of flaps. Result is an approach speed of 65-knots. No
trim necessary. The full flap condition is applied in the turn to
final.and the speed drops to 60 knots for the final approach. Keep 60-
knots into the roundout and flare at 54 knot by keeping the nose
slightly below the end of the runway. By letting students see where
they are going we keep them from being frightened..

Insult was added to injury when I found that the C-172N could be flown
and landed the same way. according to Cessna I have been flying their
aircraft incorrectly for over 30-years. Even my first instructor, who
became a factory representative for Cessna, taught me incorrectly by
emphasizing the use of trim. This old-dog has learned a new trick. Oh,
lordy, I have seen the error of my ways and have a ton of repenting to
do. Where was Arenias when I needed him?

---
Mark

[Ari]

Post by Mark
I did find this with a quick search, which seems to
corroberrate

Nice spellchecker there, FukkNutzoidBoi.

*LOL LOL LOL*

[Ari]

Post by Mark

Post by a

Post by Mark

Post by Dave Doe
In article <d19343f7-1c71-49ff-b6ec-b847ddf6bad8
@g23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>, ***@yahoo.com says...

Post by Invisible dog

Post by george

So many variables.  *Plane* for starters!

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.
Ummm, for starters plane comes in lighter after a flight....  :-)))
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Exactly. In one plane I fly, the white line is pretty much
worn off beyond recognition. ( I find it later after landing)

Where do you set it before first T/O ?
--
Duncan.- Hide quoted text -

There is a white line on the wheel, and I set it
even with the indicator arrow, or...at a "neutral"
position. (in other words, no trim)
Mark

Why would you think the take off mark on the trim wheel sets trim to
neutral (whatever that means)?

Why would you think it doesn't? I think it's clear enough
what neutral means here. The trim is even with the
elevator. Elementary concept.
---
Mark

*BWAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA*

[brian whatcott]

/snip/
I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Better check the trim setting before applying power on the takeoff.
As the Vital Actions used to be recited:
(and are now read out, in some form...)

Trim for takeoff
Throttle nut tight
Mixture rich
Air cold
Prop pitch fine
Fuel on mains
Flaps as required
Harness and Hatches secure
Instruments in limits and set

Brian W

[george]

Post by brian whatcott

/snip/
I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.
I didn't make a point of examining where the pointer was .

Better check the trim setting before applying power on the takeoff.
  (and are now read out, in some form...)
Trim for takeoff
Throttle nut tight
Mixture rich
Air cold
Prop pitch fine
Fuel on mains
Flaps as required
Harness and Hatches secure
Instruments in limits and set

Quoted from my original message
I found that I trimmed the aircraft to fly in what ever attitude I
required at that time.

I used the TTMPFFIIHHC check list on powered aircraft
CHICHAT or CBSITCB for sailplanes

[Mxsmanic]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Of course in simulators it will be the same. He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Weight and balance issues are correctly simulated for the most part.

Post by a***@gmail.com
One other thing, I wouldn't have my trim set in the same spot on EVERY
flight either :-))) as you allude above, more variables then just set
trim and take off / land.

For takeoff, I have the trim set in the takeoff range (if any) marked on the
trim control or specified by the manual. For landing, I have trim set to
wherever it needs to be for my stabilized approach.

My original question concerned the fact that I often find that my trim setting
upon landing is also near the middle of the takeoff range, just as it was for
takeoff. And this seems to happen even though I'm not looking at the trim
indicator as I trim for my stabilized approach. I was just wondering if this
is a coincidence, or something that is more or less to be expected.

On large jets I don't know if this continues to be true, as checking the trim
position is difficult, and I make fewer trim adjustments because I'm usually
on autopilot until the approach is stabilized. There are other complicating
factors, too, such as the fact that control effects are partially inverted by
use of an autothrottle.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Mxsmanic

Of course in simulators it will be the same.  He doesnt' fly a plane
where weight and balance issues come to play that affect trim settings
like in my real plane.

Weight and balance issues are correctly simulated for the most part.

And you know this by how?????? What tangible facts can you base this
on your own experiences to know what you say above is true?

Post by Mxsmanic
My original question concerned the fact that I often find that my trim setting
upon landing is also near the middle of the takeoff range, just as it was for
takeoff. And this seems to happen even though I'm not looking at the trim
indicator as I trim for my stabilized approach. I was just wondering if this
is a coincidence, or something that is more or less to be expected.

You would know the answer as I gave you the answer. Also read the
answers others gave you as they gave you the answers too.

WHY DID YOU ASK THE QUESTION IF YOU FELT MSFS SIMULATION WAS CORRECT
for the most part??? Could it be it there is a high chance it doesn't
reflect real flying??????

[Mxsmanic]

Post by a***@gmail.com
WHY DID YOU ASK THE QUESTION IF YOU FELT MSFS SIMULATION WAS CORRECT
for the most part???

A simulator simulates flight ... it does not explain it.

[Mark]

Post by Mxsmanic
Lately I have made a more stringent attempt to trim the aircraft on approach
for landing, and I note that I often end up with a trim setting that is right
inside the takeoff trim setting. Is this a coincidence, or something that is
to be expected?

Because you fly out at 65 kts and land
at the same speed. The commonality is your airspeed.

---
Mark

[Bob Moore]

Post by Mark
Because you fly out at 65 kts and land
at the same speed. The commonality is your airspeed.

Mark, you have failed to consider that in most lightplanes, the TO is
made with FLAPS UP and landings are generally made with FULL FLAPS.
Flaps require a really large trim adjustment, remember the GO-AROUND...
the large trim change required immediately after applying power and raising
the flaps? The difference between TO power and approach power also adds to
this large trim change in propellor driven aircraft.

Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

[Mark]

Post by Bob Moore

Post by Mark
Because you fly out at 65 kts and land
at the same speed.  The commonality is your airspeed.

Mark, you have failed to consider that in most lightplanes, the TO is
made with FLAPS UP and landings are generally made with FULL FLAPS.

True, that's all I've ever experienced.

Post by Bob Moore
Flaps require a really large trim adjustment, remember the GO-AROUND...
the large trim change required immediately after applying power and raising
the flaps?

Yes.

I'm also trimming on each leg including final.

Post by Bob Moore
The difference between TO power and approach power also adds to
this large trim change in propellor driven aircraft.

I certainly defer to your greater experience. It's speculation
that a coincidence of airspeed has his trim set at the same
place with take-off and landing, but...if he's just playing
computer games, then this is all probably irrelevant, as
simulation doesn't really translate to the real world.

Thanks.

---
Mark

Post by Bob Moore
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

[Richard]

On Apr 21, 9:32 am, Mark <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
Snippage
as

Post by Mark
simulation doesn't really translate to the real world.
Thanks.
---
Mark

Post by Bob Moore
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

To quote the bunyip:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Yeah genius, tell that to Boeing, LockMart and nasa to name a few.

Idiot.

[Ari]

Post by Richard
Snippage
as

Post by Mark
simulation doesn't really translate to the real world.
---
Mark

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Yeah genius, tell that to Boeing, LockMart and nasa to name a few.
Idiot.

Now, now , Richard, if you upset Mark(ie) he'll swear out
*DEATH THREATS* on you, change his name three dozen times, and TROLL
your ass off.

He's really quite the bi-polar nazz that boi is.

*snicker*

[Livingston]

People have noticed your obsession with me, and
who do you think looks crazy here?

Actions speak louder than words (or...your lies),
and we see you trapped, chained to your computer,
fixated on "Mark".

You need help Ari Bloss.

[Mark]

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:12:29 -0700 (PDT), Mark TROLLING as Livingston
wrote:

Mark inventor/artist/pilot/guitarist/scientist/philosopher/
scratch golfer/cat wrangler and observer of the mundane.
And much much more including wealthy beyond anything you can imagine.
My website http://www.hosanna1.com/ www.myspace.com/gayincarolina

[Livingston]

Post by Richard
Snippage
 as> simulation doesn't really translate to the real world.

Post by Mark
Thanks.
---
Mark

Post by Bob Moore
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Yeah genius, tell that to Boeing, LockMart and nasa to name a few.
Idiot.

NO. You're the idiot. This isn't a NASA newsgroup.

It's recreational piloting. (I know, you're lost) And,
flight simulators don't translate to light sport planes
either.

Your smart-mouth reveals *your* ignorance.
But hey, at least we're talking aviation, unlike
Ari/Jeff Bloss. I take no offense. (because I'm
right)

---
Mark

[Ari]

Mark

Mark?

Whose Livingston?

[Ari]

Post by Bob Moore

Post by Mark
Because you fly out at 65 kts and land
at the same speed. The commonality is your airspeed.

Mark, you have failed to consider that in most lightplanes, the TO is
made with FLAPS UP and landings are generally made with FULL FLAPS.
Flaps require a really large trim adjustment, remember the GO-AROUND...
the large trim change required immediately after applying power and raising
the flaps? The difference between TO power and approach power also adds to
this large trim change in propellor driven aircraft.
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

Failed to consider?

You're posting to the next Mxsmanic.

[Invisible dog]

Post by Ari

Post by Bob Moore

Post by Mark
Because you fly out at 65 kts and land
at the same speed.  The commonality is your airspeed.

Mark, you have failed to consider that in most lightplanes, the TO is
made with FLAPS UP and landings are generally made with FULL FLAPS.
Flaps require a really large trim adjustment, remember the GO-AROUND...
the large trim change required immediately after applying power and raising
the flaps? The difference between TO power and approach power also adds to
this large trim change in propellor driven aircraft.
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

Failed to consider?
You're posting to the next Mxsmanic.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

Beat it asshole. You are the crossposting, spamming,
post forging, non-pilot who floods this group.

[Ari]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 16:45:15 -0700 (PDT), MARK(ie) fully believing

Post by Invisible dog
Beat it asshole. You are the crossposting, spamming,
post forging, non-pilot who floods this group.

But, But, Mark(ie), your TROLLING post /is/ a crosspost.

*HAHAHA*

What an assclown!

[Ari]

Post by Invisible dog

Post by Ari

Post by Bob Moore

Post by Mark
Because you fly out at 65 kts and land
at the same speed.  The commonality is your airspeed.

Mark, you have failed to consider that in most lightplanes, the TO is
made with FLAPS UP and landings are generally made with FULL FLAPS.
Flaps require a really large trim adjustment, remember the GO-AROUND...
the large trim change required immediately after applying power and raising
the flaps? The difference between TO power and approach power also adds to
this large trim change in propellor driven aircraft.
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

Failed to consider?
You're posting to the next Mxsmanic.
--
A fireside chat not with Ari!http://tr.im/holj
Motto: Live To Spooge It!

Beat it asshole. You are the crossposting, spamming,
post forging, non-pilot who floods this group.

Mark?

Why do you call yourself Invisible Dog?

And Todd?

And Livingston?

And so many more nyms my fingers (Tiger) would /lol/ be numb from
typing?

Why?

[brian whatcott]

... in most lightplanes, the TO is
made with FLAPS UP and landings are generally made with FULL FLAPS.
Flaps require a really large trim adjustment, remember the GO-AROUND...
the large trim change required immediately after applying power and raising
the flaps? The difference between TO power and approach power also adds to
this large trim change in propeller driven aircraft.
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

Yep: flaps and power setting determine trim needed in numerous aircraft
types.

Brian W

[a]

Post by brian whatcott

...  in most lightplanes, the TO is
made with FLAPS UP and landings are generally made with FULL FLAPS.
Flaps require a really large trim adjustment, remember the GO-AROUND...
the large trim change required immediately after applying power and raising
the flaps? The difference between TO power and approach power also adds to
this large trim change in propeller driven aircraft.
Bob Moore
ATP CFII
PanAm (retired)

Yep: flaps and power setting determine trim needed in numerous aircraft
types.
Brian W

My certificate says SEL among other things. I do pay attention to
setting the trim to the recommended settings for take off, but that is
the only time I look at the marks. After that it's simply trimming to
remove yoke pressures except I no longer adjust trim when I'm breaking
the descent and pulling back for landing. That leaves the trim in a
reasonable place -- not ideal -- should it be necessary to go around.
At least it will not be set for the nose up attitude I use for touch
down. For sure if I have to fly a miss from 20 feet agl I won't be
fighting with an airplane badly out of climb trim.

For sim jockeys, that is a real life issue if a deer happens to wander
onto the runway, or the guy waiting to take off starts to taxi onto
the active at the wrong time, or if tower says "Mooney 201whatever go
around!."

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I PAY OFF US AND CANADA CREDIT CARD DEBT AND LINE OF CREDIT
[phone] USA whatsap